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Thread: Fe and Beauty

  1. #11
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    This thread title should be changed to Fe and agreeability. What Jung is really pointing out is that Fe taken to an extreme would rather forego its real opinion, simply to keep the peace. The fact that he chose to use art to illustrate the point, doesn't mean those with a strong preference for Fe don't know what beauty is. That is not what is going on here.

    What if someone with a strong preference for Fe is out to dinner and rather than tell the waiter the food really stinks, they tell them their dinner is "fine." Well, surely you aren't going to suggest the person doesn't know what good food is now, are you? That would be silly.

    The underlying issue is the same whether we use art or food to illustrate the point - a strong Fe preference would rather be agreeable, than disagreeable, in order to avoid conflict.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    This thread title should be changed to Fe and agreeability. What Jung is really pointing out is that Fe taken to an extreme would rather forego its real opinion, simply to keep the peace. The fact that he chose to use art to illustrate the point, doesn't mean those with a strong preference for Fe don't know what beauty is. That is not what is going on here.

    What if someone with a strong preference for Fe is out to dinner and rather than tell the waiter the food really stinks, they tell them their dinner is "fine." Well, surely you aren't going to suggest the person doesn't know what good food is now, are you? That would be silly.

    The underlying issue is the same whether we use art or food to illustrate the point - a strong Fe preference would rather be agreeable, than disagreeable, in order to avoid conflict.
    I disagree.

  3. #13
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    I disagree.
    yeah, ditto, i know some Fe doms who would tell that waiter their steak blows and kindly ask him for a new one.

    i think that Fe is generally better at communication. the Fe doms i know don't even necessarily see that kind of situation as a conflict - just an annoyance - because they are so good at handling things like that. if they want to return it without expressing any hard feelings, they can, and if they do want to express their discontent, they can, and with great precision.

    so not to speak for Fe dom/auxs, but based on the Fe doms i know, having a different opinion is not mutually exclusive with being agreeable in their world. though if it were, i tend to think they would prefer what's best for the group. (as in most cases would i, actually.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X
    it's odd to think of a function informing you of such things but i guess if i really thought about it..


    i think there are a lot of complicated things that go into beauty, including functions but also parents' preferences, early memories, cultural standards, common archetypes, associations, personal experiences, etc.

  4. #14
    Ginkgo
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    lol.

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    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Another reason why i like Fi more than Fe.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  6. #16
    Senior Member musttry's Avatar
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    I have to admit, I have no clue as to what is beautiful or not. (except when looking at women. Somehow, that is more instinctual. But even then, except in the case of plain ugliness or obesity, my basis of choosing an so is how we get along)

    It could be because I a guy, or because my parents never appreciated beauty other than in nature or because I don't use Fi very much, but when looking at clothing, for example, I am absolutely clueless as to whether it is nice or not. My trick for clothes shopping is basically going to the "on sale" section of well-known brand names tore or department and picking my size. At least then, I know that the clothing is acceptable for a large portion of the population.

    I have actually made a conscious effort to develop a sense of beauty by going to museums, art galleries, fashion shows etc. with some success. Although I am much more interested in the historical or technical aspects of art.

    Anyways, it has been difficult. My girlfriend was astonished when she met me and came to my appartment for the first time. I had left it unpainted and white and felt quite comfortable. She (INFP) finds it extremely ugly and unbecoming to not appropriate space with personal taste. We've moved in to a large appartment and are in the midst of painting ALL the (freakin) walls. I tell you, how the hell do you know if a colour is nice or not! Woe is me, a green is a green is a green, is it not?

    We've actually had this conversation and she simply cannot understand that I can look at something and be completely unmoved, one way or another. I need to see things in context in order to judge if its nice. I can't just decide it is nice on its own.

    Others have mentioned Se. I agree with this in the sense that I feel a certain sense of "euphoria" when contemplating nature or jogging through a park. I do not sense this when looking at objects.

    So, that's the experience of one INFJ.

  7. #17
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    This thread title should be changed to Fe and agreeability. What Jung is really pointing out is that Fe taken to an extreme would rather forego its real opinion, simply to keep the peace. The fact that he chose to use art to illustrate the point, doesn't mean those with a strong preference for Fe don't know what beauty is. That is not what is going on here.

    What if someone with a strong preference for Fe is out to dinner and rather than tell the waiter the food really stinks, they tell them their dinner is "fine." Well, surely you aren't going to suggest the person doesn't know what good food is now, are you? That would be silly.

    The underlying issue is the same whether we use art or food to illustrate the point - a strong Fe preference would rather be agreeable, than disagreeable, in order to avoid conflict.
    I agree with this.

    "Being polite" is different from "having no opinion about beauty except that of society's". I do find a lot of Jung's descriptions about the functions to be rather simplistic in that they focus on behavior more than anything.

    I believe that all people know whether a certain thing is beautiful to them or not, and interest plays a huge part. You could show me a really expensive car that everyone thinks is beautiful and I'd just shrug and say something like "Well, I guess it looks nice", but I honestly couldn't care less what a car looks like. On the other hand, I do have a thing for sunlight -- sunlight on leaves, sunlight on water, sunlight on the pavement -- those are what I call beautiful.

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    Senior Member lucibelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    i tend to have my own spin on presentation, art, beauty.. and i don't give a shit what anyone says on them really. unless they agree
    Agreed 100%...Sometimes I find something beautiful that other people think of as downright ugly. And the other way round. The real world is often quite ugly to me. But there is much beauty in some movies, some art...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Teh annoying/boring.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan View Post
    Jung had this to say:



    This approach to beauty seems so foreign to me, almost like that is the exact opposite of beauty.

    I wonder, do Fe doms feel more aware and constrained by external standards of beauty? If so, how does this influence their self esteem? Is beauty in the eye of the beholder or not? Do things seem more beautiful to you, if they are presented as something "beautiful"?

    Discuss.
    This definition of beauty is missed by the mere focus on the picture. Beauty is in the atmosphere or external environment surrounding the picture, not the picture itself. Beauty is outside of the object, not the object itself.
    Im out, its been fun

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    This thread title should be changed to Fe and agreeability. What Jung is really pointing out is that Fe taken to an extreme would rather forego its real opinion, simply to keep the peace. The fact that he chose to use art to illustrate the point, doesn't mean those with a strong preference for Fe don't know what beauty is. That is not what is going on here.

    What if someone with a strong preference for Fe is out to dinner and rather than tell the waiter the food really stinks, they tell them their dinner is "fine." Well, surely you aren't going to suggest the person doesn't know what good food is now, are you? That would be silly.

    The underlying issue is the same whether we use art or food to illustrate the point - a strong Fe preference would rather be agreeable, than disagreeable, in order to avoid conflict.
    I agree with this, Jung is talking about the Fe tendency to weigh how it will affect others in their environment when deciding on a course of action.

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