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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm half way through the chapter on Guardians now, and I'm beginning to think I am not an ESTJ, nor is there any possibility of my being one. Just because my mornings are routinised and I hold certain values doesn't make me an ESTJ.
    I agree.

  2. #12
    Senior Member developer's Avatar
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    It is not such a bad book, but it is terribly biased. According to Keirsey, NTs are the supreme beings, NFs are also good, SPs are sort of entertaining and SJs are just boring robots.

    I do not know what type you (Ezra) are, but if you do not recognize yourself in the description of an ESTJ it means nothing.

    As far as I know Keirsey was an INTP and his (beloved) wife an INFJ, therefore those two types get the best descriptions in the book......

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by developer View Post
    It is not such a bad book, but it is terribly biased. According to Keirsey, NTs are the supreme beings, NFs are also good, SPs are sort of entertaining and SJs are just boring robots.

    I do not know what type you (Ezra) are, but if you do not recognize yourself in the description of an ESTJ it means nothing.

    As far as I know Keirsey was an INTP and his (beloved) wife an INFJ, therefore those two types get the best descriptions in the book......
    That's odd, actually, I saw it more as SP's and SJ's got the most 'realistic" descriptions, while NF's and NT's were more removed from everyday life.

  4. #14
    Senior Member OctaviaCaesar's Avatar
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    I really enjoy this book. Truth be told, I have not read the section on NTs because I think it seems boring and complicated. (They get an extra diagram that the other temperaments don't get, too! :steam: Equality! Justice! for all temperaments!)
    I loved the section on SPs. Kiersey writes that he has spent much of his practice as a psychologist helping people (parents, spouses, lovers) understand that SPs aren't bad or wrong for being the way they are; as the people in my life that most others have problems with right now seem to be SPs, I found the chapters resonant and descriptive. Applying his understanding and insights has improved my relations with all my SPs so much!

  5. #15
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    I've read this book over and over and over. It's falling apart.

    I have enjoyed it. It's been my first experience with typing and I find it extremely thorough.

    He is a master at categorization.

    My complaints with it are two fold:
    1. He has a bias against S's... that is to say that he likes N's quite a bit more.
    2. He's very implicit about certain faults that humans fall into being traits of personality. Though he is correct that if those people do give in to their worse nature, they portray those traits in spades. (this is where complaint #1 usually comes into play.-He values N abstractness, and finds frustration with S reality.)

    Please Understand Me II Introduces the 4 intelligences: SP Tactical, SJ Logistical, NF Diplomatic, and NT Strategic, which he bases upon interest practice skill. Saying basically that Certain personalities have tendencies towards certain intelligences, which makes sense. If you have difficulty typing people this is an excellent way to determine their type. However, it is not foolproof as it is possible or necessary for some to take another intelligence as their main. This doesn't happen often, but it can. He also qualifies it with 'normal development'. For instance, my development was not 'normal' as I had an extremely controlling ESTP father who used tactics. Therefore I am an ENFP who had to learn tactics in order to survive and get things I needed and wanted. There was no place for diplomacy in this narcissistic regime, so I learned to fight fire with fire. (NOT THAT TACTICS ARE BAD!)

    One trick to the book is that it's something you can/will want to skim over and over, once you learn his definitions and meanings for certain words- and the application there of. It's harder to get into initially, but once you get his language down it's extremely insightful.


    David Keirsey is an INTP. I would highly, highly recommend the book to any rational (NT), as he seems to have then very thoroughly understood. He is a genius no doubt about it.

    I also enjoy the titles he gives to each type.

    To be honest I have no *idea* what you guys are talking about when you put A capitalized letter next to a small case one eg Ti. I have been a little curious.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
    .
    -Victor Hugo

  6. #16
    Senior Membrane spirilis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    To be honest I have no *idea* what you guys are talking about when you put A capitalized letter next to a small case one eg Ti. I have been a little curious.
    the big letter-little letter notation refers to the 8 functions Jung specified in his "Psychological Types" book, which MBTI and related systems are loosely based upon. he specified 2 classes of functions (rational vs. perceptive functions), inside which there are 2 types (T/F for rational functions and S/N for perceptive functions), and each has an I/E (the small letter). basically T, F, S, N with 'i' and 'e', so Te/Ti Fe/Fi Se/Si Ne/Ni

    obviously T = Thinking, F = Feeling, S = Sensing, N = iNtuition

    Te = Extroverted Thinking, Ti = Introverted Thinking
    and so forth.

    As for verification of the functions' existence, and what exactly they mean....... ....... .....good luck with that

  7. #17
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    What I've noticed is that the NT explanations are a hell of a lot more complex. Even more than the NFs. Especially near the beginning of the chapter. I think he has a clear emphasis on NTs, because he knows what he's talking about there (he is one).

  8. #18
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Well, the book is called Please Understand ME. [smile.]

    By the way, it was the first book I read and bought about typology. It's useful, especially if you want to know about NTs. I do. [smile again.]

    Jae Rae
    Proud Female Rider in Maverick's Bike Club.

  9. #19
    Junior Member Garivande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zergling View Post
    That's odd, actually, I saw it more as SP's and SJ's got the most 'realistic" descriptions, while NF's and NT's were more removed from everyday life.
    Since SP's and SJ's are more concerned with the reality, while NF's and NT's are more occupied with theory/ethics etc and what goes on inside their own mind, rather than the everyday life!?


  10. #20
    Senior Member chatoyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by developer View Post
    As far as I know Keirsey was an INTP and his (beloved) wife an INFJ, therefore those two types get the best descriptions in the book......
    Hey, where is it documented that she is an INFJ? This question has been bothering littlelostnf for months!!

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