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  1. #101

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    Orange-Appled:

    I don't see what that has to do with cognitive function still. How does being an endomorph make you more likely to be a Feeling type? Feeling has nothing to do with interest in food, and interest in food does not correlate to body type. Again, that's simply a stereotype.
    Psychology has been struggling for hundreds of years with the mind-body split. The Behaviorists reacted by saying that the causes of behavior are all environmental - outside the brain. All that little revolution accomplished was that the Behaviorists also ignored the body. The mind needs to be seen as the activity of the Brain which is only part of the body. The brain is not like a "soul" or independent module.

    I was semantically reckless when I used the words "interest in food". Of course we all are interested in food - but maybe in different ways. An ectomorph may be intrigued by the rarity of a particular food (truffles, special mushrooms, rare seasonings). Or maybe the ectomorph may be concerned with the aesthetics or presentation of the dish. Mesomorphs may want something they can aggressively sink their teeth in and work at devouring like a 32 oz steak. Endomorphs are more concerned with food that will fill them up. Endomorphs seem to have a greater tendency to avoid the discomfort of that empty feeling. Endo's crave comfort foods, high in carbohydrates, fat and sugar.

    Now a simple test. What word is usually associated with the word "feeling".

    a. I have this brain feeling that we're not going to get along.

    b. I have this muscle feeling that we're not going to get along.

    c. I have this gut feeling that we're not going to get along.

    This is not a trivial point.

    Let me quote Sheldon's explanation of the way organ systems affect temperament.

    "Viscerotonia (viscera-endomorphy) the first component, it its extreme manifestation is characterized by general relaxation, love of comfort, sociability, conviviality, gluttony for food, for people and affection. The viscerotonic extremes are people who 'suck hard at the breast of mother earth' and love physical proximity with others. The motivational organization is dominated by the gut and by the function of anabolism. The personality seems to center around the viscera. The digestive tract is kin, and its welfare appears to define the primary purpose of life."

    "Somatotonia (mesomorphy) the second component, is roughly a predominance of muscular activity and of vigorous bodily assertiveness. The motivation organization seems dominated by the soma. These people have vigor and push. The executive department of their internal economy is strongly vested in their somatic muscular system. Action and power defines life's primary purpose."

    "Cerebrotonia, (ectomorphy) the third component, is roughly a predominance of the element of restraint, inhibition, and of the desire for concealment. Cerebrotonic people shrink away from sociality as from too strong a light. They repress somatic and visceral expression, are hyperattentional, and sedulously avoid attracting attention to themselves. Their behavior seems dominated by the inhibitory and attentional functions of the cerebrum and their motivational hierarchy appears to define an antithesis to both of the other extremes." Taken from The Varieties of Temperament (1942) William Sheldon. MD, PHD
    “Sheldon considers human beings as they really are - psycho-physical wholes.”

    “the first serious advance of the science of man since Aristotle”

    “For the first time the old insights and intuitions about the different kinds of human beings have been clarified and put on a firmly objective and measurable basis.”
    ___“Aldous Huxley/ A Biography” Sybille Bedford, 1974

  2. #102
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    More extraterrestial nonesense.
    "Where can you flee? What road will you use to escape us? Our horses are swift, our arrows sharp, our swords like thunderbolts, our hearts as hard as the mountains, our soldiers as numerous as the sand. Fortresses will not detain us, nor arms stop us. Your prayers to God will not avail against us. We are not moved by tears nor touched by lamentations."

  3. #103
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Fine, I'm endo-ecto. Analyze me.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  4. #104
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I certainly like stylish food. He may be on to something.




    Any other ectomorph ISTJ/ISTPs who'd like to eat that?


    *crickets*



  5. #105
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Is this close?



    It's Estonia!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I certainly like stylish food. He may be on to something.




    Any other ectomorph ISTJ/ISTPs who'd like to eat that?


    *crickets*



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    the only problem I see with the associations he's making between appetite and body type is this: there's an obesity epidemic in the United States...people are biologically programmed to respond positively to a certain blend of carbs/fats which is encapsulated perfectly in many junk foods, like cheeseburgers and pizza. It's a human thing, NOT an endomorph thing. You can't sit here and tell me all of the overweight people are endormorphs. It's just not true. It's more or less a cultural disease that manipulates people's animal tendencies to crave certain foods.

    Just like all of the people who are more health conscious and discerning about food (like me, to a certain extent) are NOT ectomorphs. I was a picky eater as a child, and while I learned to eat what was put in front of me (that's the problem - not body type, but being taught that kind of mentality through family and culture), as an adult I have a lot of interest in exotic foods and eating healthy.

    I'm sure all anorexics aren't ectomorphs, either.

  8. #108
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    the only problem I see with the associations he's making between appetite and body type is this: there's an obesity epidemic in the United States...people are biologically programmed to respond positively to a certain blend of carbs/fats which is encapsulated perfectly in many junk foods, like cheeseburgers and pizza. It's a human thing, NOT an endomorph thing. You can't sit here and tell me all of the overweight people are endormorphs. It's just not true. It's more or less a cultural disease that manipulates people's animal tendencies to crave certain foods.

    Just like all of the people who are more health conscious and discerning about food (like me, to a certain extent) are NOT ectomorphs. I was a picky eater as a child, and while I learned to eat what was put in front of me (that's the problem - not body type, but being taught that kind of mentality through family and culture), as an adult I have a lot of interest in exotic foods and eating healthy.

    I'm sure all anorexics aren't ectomorphs, either.
    This is true. This is why I do not agree with using weight to define body type. I'm an ecto but if I eat properly and train hard I "turn into" a meso and certainly would not stay (looking) ecto. Not all healthy people will be ectos, some will even be endos; to me, that's the individuality in the body. It can't really be measured or made "logical". This is why fad diets are so rampant, everyone wants an easy one-size-fits-all directory.

    A lot of "overweight" people are mesos with muscles. When I got into lifting weights the first thing I was told over and over again is to pay no attention to that number on the scale. Pay attention to how you feel and how your body naturally responds. When I eat right I gain weight.
    Last edited by Vamp; 07-24-2010 at 08:38 PM. Reason: accuracy
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychdigg View Post
    Vamp:

    This is a science. Sheldon somatotyped over 100,000 people in his life time.

    Here are some of the myths about body type.

    1. It is a myth that anyone can get fat if they eat enough. Ectomorphs would physically die if they cramed their short intestinal length with enough food to make them obese. Endomorphs can have intestines up to 45 feet long. Ectomorphs as short as 15 feet.

    2. It is a myth that if an endomorph goes on a starvation diet that they will become an ectomorph. A starved endomorph doesn't even look like an ectomorph. A starved endomorph looks like an emaciated ENDOMORPH. If you took two people the same height and same weight and stood them before me in swimwear I could easily pick out which one was the endomorph. This is why Endomorphs need to radically alter the type of food they consume for permanent weight loss. They need to fill that 45 foot long food processing tube with lots of raw vegetables. On the other hand Ectomorphs need concentrated foods in small amounts throughout the day because they don't have reserves of fat for energy. Ectomorphs move their food fairly quickly through their 15 feet of intestines.

    3. It is a myth that anyone can become a mesomorph by following a vigorous program of weight lifting. The Trunk Index is changed very little by weight training. Most of the muscle mass that is added is in the arms and shoulders which isn't calculated into the Trunk Index.

    To understand Sheldon's method you really need to understand the Trunk Index. This is how the Trunk Index is determined.

    1. You have a photograph of a person. Preferably enough of the body is exposed to determine the critical measurement points. You need a planimeter which is an instrument for measuring irregular areas. You determine two areas on the photograph. One is called the Thoracic Trunk and the other is the Abdominal Trunk. Basically we are dealing strictly with the Torso (body excluding head, arms and legs). The dividing point between the Thoracic Trunk and the Abdominal Trunk is a line midway between the anatomical waist and the top of the pelvis. The Trunk Index is determined by dividing the area (obtained using the planimeter) of The Thoracic Trunk and dividing it by the area of the Abdominal Trunk. As the abdominal trunk area gets larger the Trunk Index becomes a smaller number. So here are some Trunk Indexes that will give you an idea of how they vary. (Trunk Index abbr. TI)

    Extreme Endomorph Endo 7, Meso 1, Ecto 1 Height 62.4" Weight 219@50 TI = .85
    Extreme Mesomorph Endo 1, Meso 7, Ecto 1 Height 62.4" Weight 144@50 TI = 2.05
    Extreme Ectomorph Endo 1, Meso 1, Ecto 7 Height 69.6 Weight 106@50 TI = 1.45
    Balanced Endo 4, Meso 4, Ecto 4 Height 70.8 Weight 186@50 TI = 1.45

    I can figure this out for about 1,800 combinations using a 13 point scale (using .5 increments for 7)

    It is possible for a person who has worked with this system to be fairly accurate with guessing, but it is really best to have a proper photograph.

    If you aren't familiar with the system don't even think that you can guess. But, please don't dismiss it just because you don't understand it.

    Also, the written test some of you have been referring to is practically worthless for figuring out your somatotype.

    A lot more on my website.
    I'm not the one who dismissed it, dude. I was actually kind of "on your side". Was. Hormones can determine body type and personality to a certain point. I am a tad meso and a tad aggressive because I have a little bit more testosterone in me.

    BUT

    While it is true that not everyone can get fat by eating enough and ectos have a hard time putting on weight everyone has the same length of intestine.

    It is true that starving an endo will not make them ecto but an endo does NOT have to "radically alter their diet" for permanent weight loss. They just need to find a balance and put the science/art of nutrition and training to use.

    It is true that you cannot change your bodytype but you can change it's composition. You still are what you are but you can move the levels of muscle, fat etc.,

    You're WAY off base now, buddy.

    You don't need a planimeter, btw.

    Btw- it is recommended ectos eat small meals because their usually low weight/lower calorie burn rate means they can't absorb a bigger meal as efficiently not because of what you said.

    But as it stands, individuals do what works best for them. No system of thought, no Socratic method will ever be able to replace that.
    George Bernard Shaw in cartoon form.

  10. #110
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    ^^^

    there are also ectos who can consume huge amounts of food...like the skinny guy who wolfs down an entire pizza, and can eat McDonald's every day and still be skinny....

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