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Change versus Compensation

Xander

Lex Parsimoniae
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Okay this may be semantics but in terms of type development I think there's an essential difference between change and compensation.

I'm an INTP and yet I have the capability to plan, empathise, be the centre of attention and still keep myself as an INTP. See I don't change into an ENFP when surrounded by a group of fun people I compensate.

I see this coming up in discussion with people who see that "changing their type" is some kind of compromise of their integrity. Perhaps if they saw it more as compensation then it'd go more favourably.

Now to define the whole compensation better I see it more as using what you have and just applying it to something different. For example although I claim to have empathy most of the time I am merely forming a causal relationship between the circumstance and outcome with reference to the database of previous experiences that I have. I reckon (can't confirm as I don't seem quite capable of walking a mile in another man's shoes) that with say an ENFJ it's more "feeling the force". Where as I can try to understand the connection between circumstance A and emotion B they understand it intuitively and know how a person feels almost as a sculptor moulds their work. I know that's a shoddy description to go with but the intuitive picture behind that is larger than I feel capable of putting into words without going into poetry.

Anyhow the concept is that it's possible to compensate and emulate but not to change. I will never be an ENFP but I can seem very like it at times and can respond to things in an ENFP manner. This is how development goes. All that advice on changing what you do is not particularly true, I think if it was more bent toward where you apply your current abilities it'd be a bit better and more applicable.

Right well I thought that was an interesting change of perspective but now it's written I'm not so sure.

Feedback appreciated.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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If change... as in function use, is initially deliberate and under your control, then I consider it merely as adaptation (compensation as you call it). I think as long as you know who you are... that your self identity does not dissociate... adapting is a good thing to have.
 

Domino

ENFJ In Chains
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I see any "inferior function" exposition as compensation, not change.

This ENFJ dances at you boldly, INTPman. Show me your best moves, bro, or be bumped from the thread. :D
 

Xander

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If change... as in function use, is initially deliberate and under your control, then I consider it merely as adaptation (compensation as you call it). I think as long as you know who you are... that your self identity does not dissociate... adapting is a good thing to have.
That was kinda the point, just said in a half cooked manner really :)

The thing I've seen time and again is the presence of indignation that some situation or person may require them to "change". The point of making the differentiation between change and compensation is that the person does not change to compensate. It is the same person, the same soul and the same skills being employed just with a change in focus of to what they are applied. Hence there's no need for indignation.
I see any "inferior function" exposition as compensation, not change.
Exposition? Interesting choice of word. Do you figure then that you are deliberately putting one of your inferior functions to the fore in these exercises then? Do you not figure that many apparent exositions of a particular function are merely your own interpretation of those functions as processed through your present preferences?
This ENFJ dances at you boldly, INTPman. Show me your best moves, bro, or be bumped from the thread. :D
Errm the only appropriate response to that really is..

:party:
 

lastrailway

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508
I have nothing useful to add here, except maybe that the personality type is about tendencies, not about behaviour - behaviour is an alterable and superficial expression of one's current mood, or at least that's what I think. The tendencies can be manifested in various ways, and/or ignored sometimes, but they still constitute the base of the self.
 

wildcat

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Okay this may be semantics but in terms of type development I think there's an essential difference between change and compensation.

I'm an INTP and yet I have the capability to plan, empathise, be the centre of attention and still keep myself as an INTP. See I don't change into an ENFP when surrounded by a group of fun people I compensate.

I see this coming up in discussion with people who see that "changing their type" is some kind of compromise of their integrity. Perhaps if they saw it more as compensation then it'd go more favourably.

Now to define the whole compensation better I see it more as using what you have and just applying it to something different. For example although I claim to have empathy most of the time I am merely forming a causal relationship between the circumstance and outcome with reference to the database of previous experiences that I have. I reckon (can't confirm as I don't seem quite capable of walking a mile in another man's shoes) that with say an ENFJ it's more "feeling the force". Where as I can try to understand the connection between circumstance A and emotion B they understand it intuitively and know how a person feels almost as a sculptor moulds their work. I know that's a shoddy description to go with but the intuitive picture behind that is larger than I feel capable of putting into words without going into poetry.

Anyhow the concept is that it's possible to compensate and emulate but not to change. I will never be an ENFP but I can seem very like it at times and can respond to things in an ENFP manner. This is how development goes. All that advice on changing what you do is not particularly true, I think if it was more bent toward where you apply your current abilities it'd be a bit better and more applicable.

Right well I thought that was an interesting change of perspective but now it's written I'm not so sure.

Feedback appreciated.
Oliver Sacks thought L-Dopa can make a change in catatonic patients.
Well it didn't.

The patients did not need a drug to become catatonic in the first place.
A motive was enough.

Certainly if you can become a catatonic, you can change type.
A minor miracle.

You can become dissappointed in particular aspects in life.
Or you can become disappointed in life in general.
In the latter case you become a catatonic.

Compensation is change.
 
Last edited:

alcea rosea

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I agree its compensation not change.

But it's very hard to behave very differently than what is natural for you. I never can be as objective as INTP's. And I really have tried to survive in NT world by trying to be one. I didn't succeed and I don't even try anymore. I am what I am.

I have known one INTP (with very strong I and T) who thought he was good with people. He thought he could make people do anything he wanted and he thought that he had excellent people skills. (He told it to me himself.) He didn't know that people noticed his intentions and people hate when being manipulated. His people skills were in fact very poor.

(I also know one INTP who is excellent with people. ;))

I do try to improve my weaker functions but it doesn't come naturally and it really isn't easy (but nobody said it would be).
 

Domino

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Exposition? Interesting choice of word. Do you figure then that you are deliberately putting one of your inferior functions to the fore in these exercises then?

I know that my Ti will exert itself under strain AND when I desire some change. So it jumps out of the closet wearing all my clothes and waving its arms wildly when it wants to prompt a change of angle (i.e. wrest control away from a perhaps flogged Fe that's about to collapse) or when it's merely trying to compensate for said collapse of exhausted Fe. Me trying to coldly logic my way through a change is bad news.


Do you not figure that many apparent expositions of a particular function are merely your own interpretation of those functions as processed through your present preferences?

How like a P to say such a thing. *bland infuriating smile* ;) :D *pokes the bear*


Errm the only appropriate response to that really is..

:party:

Whoa! Call the fire dept! It's a disco inferno! :shock:
 

wildcat

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I agree its compensation not change.

But it's very hard to behave very differently than what is natural for you. I never can be as objective as INTP's. And I really have tried to survive in NT world by trying to be one. I didn't succeed and I don't even try anymore. I am what I am.

I have known one INTP (with very strong I and T) who thought he was good with people. He thought he could make people do anything he wanted and he thought that he had excellent people skills. (He told it to me himself.) He didn't know that people noticed his intentions and people hate when being manipulated. His people skills were in fact very poor.

(I also know one INTP who is excellent with people. ;))

I do try to improve my weaker functions but it doesn't come naturally and it really isn't easy (but nobody said it would be).
All the INTPs are excellent with people.
All the people are not excellent with them.
 

white

~dangerous curves ahead~
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All the INTPs are excellent with people.
All the people are not excellent with them.

Perhaps, "All the people are not excellent to them". ;)

Compensation is change to those who see a breakage, when others see a bending, Xander...

It is a question of perspective, isn't it, and how much one can bear. If one can flex more than another, the former would call it compensation. The latter, change.
 

Xander

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I have nothing useful to add here, except maybe that the personality type is about tendencies, not about behaviour - behaviour is an alterable and superficial expression of one's current mood, or at least that's what I think. The tendencies can be manifested in various ways, and/or ignored sometimes, but they still constitute the base of the self.
This is actually a much clearer way of expressing the difference, thanks. It often takes someone else's perspective for my to truly clarify my thoughts.

If your type is a preference then should you move away from your preference then do you now prefer a different style of thinking? No. Ergo you have changed nothing, you have adjusted, compensated, flexed.

Thanks for that. :nice:
 

Xander

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Oliver Sacks thought L-Dopa can make a change in catatonic patients.
Well it didn't.

The patients did not need a drug to become catatonic in the first place.
A motive was enough.

Certainly if you can become a catatonic, you can change type.
A minor miracle.

You can become dissappointed in particular aspects in life.
Or you can become disappointed in life in general.
In the latter case you become a catatonic.

Compensation is change.
Aha so the gauntlet has been thrown down has it?
:duel:
Okay.

A suspension strut compensates for the road surface and weight shift of a car. If the suspension flexes to take a corner then it is not now a fluffy bunny. It is still suspension. It is still the same type, style, model and part number of suspension. It may or may not bear some stress cracks from the flexing but such things are wear and tear (normally).

Suspension, like humans and their minds, are built with a little flex, some slack to enable people to compensate for bumps in their road.
 

Xander

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I agree its compensation not change.

But it's very hard to behave very differently than what is natural for you. I never can be as objective as INTP's. And I really have tried to survive in NT world by trying to be one. I didn't succeed and I don't even try anymore. I am what I am.
An ENFP once proved to me that ENFPs are logical creatures without exception (well except the wierd.. sorry except the normal ones :D ).

ENFPs tend to have strong emotions. Surely it would be illogical to try to ignore such strong influences on ones actions. Therefore an ENFP is guided by their emotions. To do otherwise would be illogical as their emotions would fight back and that's not good.
I have known one INTP (with very strong I and T) who thought he was good with people. He thought he could make people do anything he wanted and he thought that he had excellent people skills. (He told it to me himself.) He didn't know that people noticed his intentions and people hate when being manipulated. His people skills were in fact very poor.
This is a good point which I've been musing on. It seems that Ts are tripped up in lying and influencing people with Fs being able to see their motivations and intentions too easily and vice versa with Fs and their thinking. Something about the inferior functions providing insight into what the person does not necessarily know that they are showing.
(I also know one INTP who is excellent with people. ;))
Another who must be fed to Cthulhu less his infection spreads ;)
 

Xander

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I know that my Ti will exert itself under strain AND when I desire some change. So it jumps out of the closet wearing all my clothes and waving its arms wildly when it wants to prompt a change of angle (i.e. wrest control away from a perhaps flogged Fe that's about to collapse) or when it's merely trying to compensate for said collapse of exhausted Fe. Me trying to coldly logic my way through a change is bad news.
The worst aspects of ISTP, cold calculation. Very specific and totally lacking in context. Have you ever noticed how ENFJs or yourself tends to lose context when angered?

Thing is that you're not illogical and not without T. You can use it and I'd imagine it'd come in more strongly in engineering/ mechanical stuff. Then you possibly have it turned maybe even to eleven. But it's still you. It's not a new you, just a facet or capability previously untapped or unnoticed by others.
How like a P to say such a thing. *bland infuriating smile* ;) :D *pokes the bear*
Light blue touch paper.
*CHECK*
Retire.
:run: *CHECK*

:devil:
Whoa! Call the fire dept! It's a disco inferno! :shock:
You would call the fire dept. Any old excuse :rolleyes:
 

Xander

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All the INTPs are excellent with people.
All the people are not excellent with them.
Are you trying to be more popular than Hustler or what?
;)

INTPs CAN be excellent with people, they just have to be interested in them.

I guess the same works in reverse.
 

Xander

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Perhaps, "All the people are not excellent to them". ;)

Compensation is change to those who see a breakage, when others see a bending, Xander...

It is a question of perspective, isn't it, and how much one can bear. If one can flex more than another, the former would call it compensation. The latter, change.
No it's a question of whether it snaps back like elastic or lies in pieces like glass. One stretched and is returned to what it was before, the other has been altered and work must be put in to return it to it's former glory. That's what I'm on about. Flexing, not breaking. Breaking is more the realm of interrogation and conditioning.
 

nightning

ish red no longer *sad*
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No it's a question of whether it snaps back like elastic or lies in pieces like glass. One stretched and is returned to what it was before, the other has been altered and work must be put in to return it to it's former glory. That's what I'm on about. Flexing, not breaking. Breaking is more the realm of interrogation and conditioning.

I kind of see what wildcat means... but I agree with you that the traditional meaning of the two, compensation and change aren't the same.

You have suspensions... a spring being compressed. Does it return to its original position after stress? No quite... close to it, but not quite. And so there has been change. But the change isn't to become something else... more like a stretchier version of the same. The more you practice, the easier it becomes. You've changed, but you haven't become the other type.
 

wildcat

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Perhaps, "All the people are not excellent to them". ;)

Compensation is change to those who see a breakage, when others see a bending, Xander...

It is a question of perspective, isn't it, and how much one can bear. If one can flex more than another, the former would call it compensation. The latter, change.
Yes.
Any system breaks up with enough pressure. Escape (=compensation; change) is a way to put up with pressure a little while longer.

My father was an alcoholic bohemian fiddler who used to sleep in taverns.
One day he changed. People asked: Is this the same man?

I guess the escape had become a burden. The medicine had become a poison.
Then he just stopped using the medicine, that is all.

Does Sun revolve around the Earth? Einstein did not know.
The change is not in us. It is in the circumstances. Not a bad way to put it.
 

wildcat

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Aha so the gauntlet has been thrown down has it?
:duel:
Okay.

A suspension strut compensates for the road surface and weight shift of a car. If the suspension flexes to take a corner then it is not now a fluffy bunny. It is still suspension. It is still the same type, style, model and part number of suspension. It may or may not bear some stress cracks from the flexing but such things are wear and tear (normally).

Suspension, like humans and their minds, are built with a little flex, some slack to enable people to compensate for bumps in their road.
Mece now? In the arctic winter I shall need my mittens. My suspension strut is all ice.
 
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