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  1. #21
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    let me help you out there:

    ESTP males and ISFJ females...which is exactly what I've said before. No matter what your type, as a male, you have an inner ESTP, and females have an inner ISFJ. Our other types are just the egg shells.
    I think I actually agree with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    My friend who majored in Biology in college said that there's a law of Physics that change can only occur at a certain pace without there being chaos, therefore only about 10% of humans would be strong proponents of change, while the other 90% would have to preserve order so that there would not be disaster.

    Of course, the ratio of MBTI types isn't 10% to 90% but I do think of her theory when I think of how there are more SJs than any other type.

    I think we're all products of evolution. I don't think any one type is the be all and end all, but I think that a certain balance of personalities is necessary for human society to thrive.

    I disagree with the person who said N and J would be at a disadvantage, because FJs have Fe, which is highly conducive to civilized society.
    And I very much agree with all of this . It's some sort of ecosystem where things are in balance.

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  2. #22
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    The ones we have.

    Evidence? The types that we already have. They got there by a process of evolution too; whether genetic or cultural is irrelevant, as we are not in a position to differentiate at present. Remember that we are above all social beings, though we may indeed experience ourselves as individuals. Each type plays its part and has a role or roles they fill particularly well in our complex societies, and in a healthy society will naturally gravitate towards them, I would suggest...


    biodiversity is key to stability and resilience of systems...

    while perhaps some functions will change to adapt to the environment, and while percentages of certain types may increase or decrease, i think the variety of types will stay stable. given of course humans have defined these types and could increase/decrease that number at will, but the variety of behavior, i mean.

    i also think that in certain societies, types will present differently and also be more or less popular and prevalent, like what maramalade.sunrise was getting at, nature and nurture.

    No matter what your type, as a male, you have an inner ESTP, and females have an inner ISFJ. Our other types are just the egg shells.
    can you expound upon this?

  3. #23
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyImagining View Post
    I disagree with that quite a substantial amount actually. Forgive me if I sound self righteous here, but if there is one group of people I tend to clash with or have nothing in common with it is stereotypical Se dominants
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    Sorry if I offended you with that. I surely do not mean all Se dominants. Someone not developing other functions beyond their dominant can lead to a lot of negative interactions with said person ,regardless of type; but majority of Se dominants that I have encountered who fit the stereotype "perfectly" tend to be astute at irking me in a way few others can. It was just a generalisation though. Regardless, if there is one type I know I am not, it is ESTP.I have had a lot of clashes with Se users in the past- they were the ones who usually derided and bullied me for being idiosyncratic and for my violation of societal gender constructs. But as I said before I do not believe all Se dominants to be like that and I see nothing intrinsically wrong with being one- it would be peccant and biggoted for me to do otherwise. Once again sorry if my phraseology misconstrued what I meant
    The MBTI is a tool to help you on your self discovery. It nor any other the label can ever hope to describe you, because you are are unique and special, we all are. Any comments made regarding a group of people should be considered to be general and not ubiquitous; and no one should lose of sight of that. . Do not stereotype other people or yourself for that matter, but generalise if you must when a general example or pattern is required. And if you took the time to read this thank you

  5. #25
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I only pick on bullies, because they have it coming

    if you stick around you'll realize that there are plenty of Se doms who have a lot more in common with you than you would think... I've never had a problem getting along with an INFJ despite being a Se dom

    anyways... your shadow type is an ESTP
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #26
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyImagining View Post
    I disagree with that quite a substantial amount actually. Forgive me if I sound self righteous here, but if there is one group of people I tend to clash with or have nothing in common with it is stereotypical Se dominants
    Exactly. Its because you feel almost like a split personality. You have those testosterone moments where you actually feel like being "a man"...and surprise surprise, you end up doing things like the ESTP suggested all along! Its almost like INFJ Males have an animus (male shadow) than a female shadow as jung claimed all males have.

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    can you expound upon this?
    Just think of having to survive in harsh wilderness. Warring tribes who fight over food, mates, and yet are able to leverage "brotherly love" at the same time in order to survive better as a "tribe". Its right up ESTP alley! Way more so than even ESFJ males.

    Any time your male instincts tell you to just "cave man it", you're having one of those testosterone moments. Surprise surprise, you then act like an immature ESTP who just takes what he wants...because he's an extroverted "doer".

    Quote Originally Posted by ConstantlyImagining View Post
    Sorry if I offended you with that. I surely do not mean all Se dominants. Someone not developing other functions beyond their dominant can lead to a lot of negative interactions with said person ,regardless of type; but majority of Se dominants that I have encountered who fit the stereotype "perfectly" tend to be astute at irking me in a way few others can. It was just a generalisation though. Regardless, if there is one type I know I am not, it is ESTP.I have had a lot of clashes with Se users in the past- they were the ones who usually derided and bullied me for being idiosyncratic and for my violation of societal gender constructs. But as I said before I do not believe all Se dominants to be like that and I see nothing intrinsically wrong with being one- it would be peccant and biggoted for me to do otherwise. Once again sorry if my phraseology misconstrued what I meant
    Ur assuming they are just "gender stereotypes". Im more of the opinion that they are that way for a reason. Our species evolved a meme culture that evolves as well. The culture didnt just come for no reason. Theres a reason why male stereotypes coincide with "cavemaning it" and "immature ESTPing it". You're just mad that often your "higher brain" goes against what ur "lower brain" tells you to do!

    I have the same issues (as an ENFJ male).

  7. #27
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle
    Just think of having to survive in harsh wilderness. Warring tribes who fight over food, mates, and yet are able to leverage "brotherly love" at the same time in order to survive better as a "tribe". Its right up ESTP alley! Way more so than even ESFJ males.

    Any time your male instincts tell you to just "cave man it", you're having one of those testosterone moments. Surprise surprise, you then act like an immature ESTP who just takes what he wants...because he's an extroverted "doer".
    ah, that's interesting. i'm not sure how much i believe the "instinct" stuff though. i don't think i have much specifically female instinct other than aw-cute-baby, insert-penis-here, and bitch-i-will-cut-you.

    it does make me think about stress response though, male fight-flight and female tend-befriend. i'm still not sure those really correlate to any types in particular. why is your female type introverted, anyway? i would think that traditional female social glue would suggest E. i would tend to agree with TP and FJ otherwise, maybe...

  8. #28
    Senior Member ZPowers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    The ones we have.

    Evidence? The types that we already have. They got there by a process of evolution too; whether genetic or cultural is irrelevant, as we are not in a position to differentiate at present. Remember that we are above all social beings, though we may indeed experience ourselves as individuals. Each type plays its part and has a role or roles they fill particularly well in our complex societies, and in a healthy society will naturally gravitate towards them, I would suggest...
    Maybe, but evolution has a way of constantly diverging, creating new mutations. My guess is that most of these mutations generally don't survive, and certainly many are ill-favored. Of course, the modern world deeply limits the amount of external danger we face, so we can get by fairly safely today. But that still leaves the question: what is the type that faired the best historically, which would (if type were 100% genetic, which I will assume for simplicity's sake, and to stay on topic) be by far the most common?

    Similar question: In light of relatively recent major advances in human society, what type is likely to become increasingly heavily favored down the line (if any)?
    Does he want a pillow for his head?

  9. #29
    Senior Member Beargryllz's Avatar
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    I believe it moves toward an equilibrium dependent on external conditions and pressures on any human-formed society. This would be vastly different across cultures, change during social and economic upheaval, during war, and when the "needs" of a culture change. If anyone could point me towards a society, even a tiny tribe, dominated by a single type, I would love to take a closer look at this phenomenon in progress.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Liesl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    No matter what your type, as a male, you have an inner ESTP, and females have an inner ISFJ. Our other types are just the egg shells.
    Hmm, I don't have an inner ISFJ.

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