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  1. #1
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Default For a proper definition of iNtuition?

    Seems to me that a lot of the descriptions of iNtuition are essentially mystical.

    You can't have pure "abstractions". Every abstraction in the last instance flows from a generalization and simplification of material "phenomena" in order to permit a generalized discussion. Consciousness is the result of material building blocks - the human body - and a material process - evolution.

    So iNtution shouldn't be seen as divorced from the material world, but as a particular form of percieving it. Nothing more. It is not a mytic force, rather ti means you subconsciously store and group data and then express it as a generalized vision. Because it is based on eradication of detail in order to permit generalization, it doesn't reference the specific, and often cannot do so easily (needing to seek out Si or Se).

    We all do this to a greater or lesser degree but to some it's the primary way of collecting information, to some it is secodnary to reference to the specific.

    Any thoughts? Apologies if I am reinventing the wheel here but sometimes I think iNtuition, because of its nature, is treated as something immaterial, inexplicable and "mystical". Which is completely wrong.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  2. #2
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    i probably have a less experienced view of N percieving (being S and all), but i just see it as another element in aiding me in pattern recognition. among other things. it helps creatively speaking too, i think.. but it's not too far reaching for me. i wouldn't call it mystical.

  3. #3
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    yeah there's nothing mystical about N. it's just a descriptor referring to metaphor-generation.

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    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Of course, I wasn't trying to say N is mystical. I meant that many of the descriptions essentially seem that way (even when not explicit), and so I'd be interested to hear better definitions. I was trying to put some thoughts forward for one such thing - would be interested if anyone has any opinions.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #5
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i always associated N with big-picture thinking, which, like you said, is pretty much the ability to

    Quote Originally Posted by tcda
    subconsciously store and group data and then express it as a generalized vision
    i think it's both a matter of locating similarities in data and also of determining the global relevance of those similarities, then prioritizing accordingly and disposing of whatever is determined to be most irrelevant. at first it would seem like N requires a lot more work than S, but S stores so much more pure data than N. what we gain in global relevance, we lose in concrete detail.

    i also associate it with understanding theory first, and then applying that in reality. for instance, i am an excellent navigator given a map, but i suck if left to orient myself on the street. so it's easier for me to start with simpler areas - a coordinate directional plane, large streets, geographical features - and work my way down to the street level, than to use so many very small details all at once. on the other hand, i that know to my mom, who is an esfj, maps just seem like double the information to work with, and she can orient herself on the street almost immediately using concrete visual clues.

    i think pattern recognition is where the "mystical" sense of N comes in. people with high N are able to glimpse part of a pattern and mentally jump from there to the whole picture. and that doesn't require conscious recognition of the pattern, simply the ability to make that jump and the will to "trust your gut" that it's accurate.

    quick related anecdote - i did awesome on the SAT verbal, but only a little above average in math. went for private tutoring and took a diagnostic test, which is supposed to indicate where you're having trouble. i was all over the place. so the tutor sat me down to watch my work. he was baffled. he's like, you start with the right numbers, you perform strange and only somewhat accurate operations on them, and usually end up with the right answers. iNtuition in action...

  6. #6
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    When N is looking at details, it fits them to the big picture(that is formed intuitively). In other words N looks at details thru the big picture. N also looks more on how things could be(in the future), compares possible outcomes of future to the present and what could be done.

    S sees the big picture thru details. S looks more on how things are and compares the present to what has happened. S is more into changing the present to what they like instead of looking at the future changes like N.

  7. #7
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    When N is looking at details, it fits them to the big picture(that is formed intuitively). In other words N looks at details thru the big picture. N also looks more on how things could be(in the future), compares possible outcomes of future to the present and what could be done.
    That's the problem. "Formed intuitively" doesn't tell us anything. You're using a word as part of its own definition.

    "Intuition" doesn't fall out of the sky or come purely from the mind. It is a way of processing external data. Specifically it is to:

    subconsciously store and group data and then express it as a generalized vision
    Though perhaps "envisage" would be a better word than "express"
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #8
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    From the thread Mindframes and the Mindframes testing - if you equate Insight with iNtuition (very close correlation), this is the best explanation I have seen so far about how my iNtuition works:

    INSIGHT takes place primarily in the RIGHT-FRONT region of the cerebral cortex. The cortex is where conscious thought takes place. The RIGHT side associates images by feel, which gives personal significance to memories. So thinking on the right side is nonverbal, instinctive and subjective The FRONT part of the right brain takes perceptions from the back part—sights, sounds, and body sensations—and relates them based on how you feel about them.

    For instance, you may notice a friend's posture and tone of voice, along with the fact that she's under a lot of stress. Without consciously trying to do so, you remember these three perceptions—the posture, the tone, and the stressful situation—as a single pattern. Later, experiencing any one of these images may trigger a meaningful association with the other two. This is how insight tells you when something important is going on.

    INSIGHT is the mindframe of imagination. It enables you to:

    * Read nonverbal "body language"
    * Interpret someone's moods
    * Be aware of a person's individual traits
    * Have empathy for another person's situation
    * Understand the characteristics of a human relationship
    * Appreciate the merits of a work of art
    * Associate one image with another
    * Think of a new solution
    * Visualize a possible future scenario
    * Know whether an action is ethically correct
    * Sense the personal significance of something
    * Feel a hunch that something is true, even without evidence
    * Hear "alarm bells" of high risk or danger
    * Form and use beliefs to make decisions
    * Consider some things to be more important than others
    * Make a personal commitment

    INSIGHT isn't some kind of psychic power. It's simply the ability to "connect the dots" all at once by seeing the pattern. You get a feel for how the world works based on observation. You see a woman smile, and you know she doesn't mean it. How? Instead of careful step-by-step reasoning to reach that conclusion, you instantly recognize the special cues you've learned to associate with insincerity. This intuition only seems mysterious because it happens so fast.

    INSIGHT answers questions of personal significance: "Is this right?" "Is it fair?" and "How important is this?" It uses the patterns drawn from past experience to assess the meaning of what's happening right now. You form beliefs that "feel right." You hold them as long as they continue to work for you. For instance, if you've learned to recognize the signals, you may be able to tell when a person is lying.

    INSIGHT is a key mindframe for artists, designers, composers, performers, authors, architects, theologians and counselors. The ability to associate is also crucial to putting together a story, a poem, a song or a drawing. It lets you enjoy, appreciate and interpret works of art. When you connect the physical details of your experience, you discover their meaning. You see patterns and sense significance. The wisdom you gain, such as your understanding of people, isn't easily explained by logic.

    These examples show how the insightful part of your mind does its work: intuiting, valuing and imagining. How much does the INSIGHT mindframe influence your thinking?
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  9. #9
    One day and the next Rainne's Avatar
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    It's like a fuzzy picture.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    That's the problem. "Formed intuitively" doesn't tell us anything. You're using a word as part of its own definition.

    "Intuition" doesn't fall out of the sky or come purely from the mind. It is a way of processing external data. Specifically it is to:



    Though perhaps "envisage" would be a better word than "express"
    ok, so your talking about general idea of intuition, not mbti intuition, those are two different things.

    general term for intuition means pretty much just knowing something without thinking it(making an conscious deduction on something) or without knowing why you just know something. basically intuition is an unconscious deduction or something that puts you on the right tracks of making an conscious deduction to form deep insight on something.

    mbti term for intuition i already explained earlier

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