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  1. #11
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    To be a complete flake, I'm going to just say it's rather amusing to hear someone basically say the Ennegram types are all unhealthy and MBTI fixes them.
    Thank you for saying in 20 words what I took several paragraphs to say!
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  2. #12
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    To be a complete flake, I'm going to just say it's rather amusing to hear someone basically say the Ennegram types are all unhealthy and MBTI fixes them.
    She is not saying that exactly. More like MBTI type is more in charge of your personality, than Enneagram type, when you're healthy person.
    You must take into consideration that you as INTP and enneagram 5, have very similar mbti and e-type, which makes you more blind to conflicts within those 2 types in person than some people who have very different mbti and e-type.

    I could never say that my type 3 is the real me. I have some qualities that 3 has and I will have them always and be able to use them, but I dont see it as my core self or identity at all.
    Maybe i'd see it as such if i was ESTJ and 3.


    anyway, maybe this theory works only for certain people and the author is blind to that because she is one of those people too. But I do know many people (mostly with weird mbti-enneagram combo) who benefited a lot from this model.

  3. #13
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloee View Post
    She is not saying that exactly. More like MBTI type is more in charge of your personality, than Enneagram type, when you're healthy person.
    You must take into consideration that you as INTP and enneagram 5, have very similar mbti and e-type, which makes you more blind to conflicts within those 2 types in person than some people who have very different mbti and e-type.

    I could never say that my type 3 is the real me. I have some qualities that 3 has and I will have them always and be able to use them, but I dont see it as my core self or identity at all.
    Maybe i'd see it as such if i was ESTJ and 3.


    anyway, maybe this theory works only for certain people and the author is blind to that because she is one of those people too. But I do know many people (mostly with weird mbti-enneagram combo) who benefited a lot from this model.
    I agree with this. I think I'm an ENFJ enneagram 1. The "real me" is ENFJ...the self I've built to survive the "real world" is enneagram 1. ...Or at least that'd be a neat theory.

  4. #14
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    It makes sense to me, actually. Enneagram does seem more about psychological dents put in our psyche by the environment available to us while growing up, whereas MBTI is more about the format of the psyche we are given. Enneagram seems more about facing personal demons; MBTI seems more like a user’s manual (to understand our strengths/weaknesses and the strengths/weaknesses of others).

    This is even reflected in the marketing of the different systems. Enneagram is often geared toward healing ends or self-development; MBTI is more often presented as means to better get along with others, create harmony in the workplace, finding your niche in the workplace, etc. This isn't always the case, but it seems to predominately lean this way.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

    5w4 sx/sp Johari / Nohari

  5. #15
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    I disagree with what she says about "in the grip" experiences, as an ENTP E7 I don't relate to ISFJs one bit as Si is a comfortable thing for them however Quenk's theory of grip experiences involving Si & Fe are exactly what it's like for me. Quenk's book has given me a more accurate view of myself under bad stress than the enneagram does, they do both have their place though.

  6. #16
    Senior Member valentine's Avatar
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    I think this is a case of the author having a conclusion in mind, then finding 'evidence' to support it. While it isn't exactly baseless it doesn't come close to being universal either.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valentine View Post
    I think this is a case of the author having a conclusion in mind, then finding 'evidence' to support it.
    Interesting, because I think so about many who say "How can Xy dom be at the same time type Z in enneagram, because type Z corresponds more to Cs dominant behavior" - exactly, finding match/evidence for your conclusion, and using as fact that everything within persons personality should match completely, as if people dont have internal conflicts all the time.

  8. #18
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    It is because MBTI contains mainly positive description while the Ennegram has a lot of negative description. Speaking of which, the article never really addressed the Ennegram integration and disintegration point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    To be a complete flake, I'm going to just say it's rather amusing to hear someone basically say the Ennegram types are all unhealthy and MBTI fixes them.

  9. #19
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chloé View Post
    She is not saying that exactly. More like MBTI type is more in charge of your personality, than Enneagram type, when you're healthy person.
    I've been thinking about this a fair bit since I first read this thread. I'm new to the Enneagram so if any of these comments are obvious or don't make sense, I'll apologize in advance.

    Wyman's views make sense to me for the most part.

    If the Enneagram is more related to our "defense mechanisms" then naturally the profile descriptions would highlight negative aspects of our behaviors more than MBTI which is about "cognitive processes". The "Grip" episodes described by Quenk seem to be more episodic or short lived. When we are in the Grip, we are acting in a way that isn't congruent with our normal behavior and as we emerge out of it, we get back to our normal selves. This seems very different than the Enneagram which relates to our core motivations. If our defense mechanisms dominate our personalities more than they should, then it could result in some bad things happening, and that doesn't seem like a short term episodic sort of thing where we quickly revert back to normal. So, I think they can both be related to how we react under stress, but I'm not sure I agree there is overlap between the two concepts (or at least I don't see it).

    I don't think she is equating Enneagram with negative and MBTI as positive. I think it has more to do with being in a position where we are out of balance with respect to our motivations and how we are responding to the outer world.

    With respect to the overlap between the two models, I think she is saying that you can compare the attributes of your MBTI and Enneagram type and you end up with:
    1. attributes that are neutral or overlap - they are in common
    2. attributes that are characteristic to your MBTI type and not Enneagram
    3. attributes that are characteristic to your Enneagram and not MBTI type

    What she is saying is that if our personalities become dominated by our Enneagram characteristics vs. our MBTI ones that it is unhealthy. So, in her practice, she uses this concept to help people get more into balance.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

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  10. #20
    Welcome to Sunnyside Mondo's Avatar
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    Where does "6" fit in?
    I agree with Jennifer that Enneagram typically has more 'unhealthy' descriptions than the MBTI does.
    MBTI Type: iNTj
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