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  1. #1
    Member CocoB's Avatar
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    Default What do ISTJ'S think of ENFJ'S?

    Ok, I've been told different things and i would like to know what you guys think... What do ISTJ's think of ENFJ's? Do we "feel" too much? Is our constant "energy" draining? Does our constant talking annoy you?

    Honest answers would help a great deal

  2. #2
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    I interact with 4 ENFJs on a daily basis, 2 coworkers, my store manager and my sister. My biggest issues with them are:

    1. Think you should stop and do something for someone or them just for the sake of being nice.

    2. Getting so caught up in their perception of how people might be thinking/feeling or in their ideas of a way to do something that they blatantly ignore the limitations of reality or the facts of the situation.

    I feel like I spend so much time correcting their "guesses" at what could be going on that I feel like they're just spouting out nonsense. Just like all FJs, they start complaining if people treat them the wrong way. I can't stand that. I told my sister that most of the sentences out of her mouth begin with "I think" and "I believe". I point it out because everything she says isn't always a fact, which frustrates me, and then she or other people get fooled into thinking it's true. It makes me want to murder babies.


  3. #3
    Member CocoB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I interact with 4 ENFJs on a daily basis, 2 coworkers, my store manager and my sister. My biggest issues with them are:

    1. Think you should stop and do something for someone or them just for the sake of being nice.

    2. Getting so caught up in their perception of how people might be thinking/feeling or in their ideas of a way to do something that they blatantly ignore the limitations of reality or the facts of the situation.

    I feel like I spend so much time correcting their "guesses" at what could be going on that I feel like they're just spouting out nonsense. Just like all FJs, they start complaining if people treat them the wrong way. I can't stand that. I told my sister that most of the sentences out of her mouth begin with "I think" and "I believe". I point it out because everything she says isn't always a fact, which frustrates me, and then she or other people get fooled into thinking it's true. It makes me want to murder babies.
    As an Enfj myself i would have to ask what makes you think that we are not doing something to be "nice" or out of the kindness of our hearts?
    What i will say is that we are BIG "feelers" and we base majority of things off how we feel and how others may feel as well... Once we draw a conclusion about someone or something based on how they or their actions made us feel... We will usually stick with that. I think the ISTJ and ENFJ have some many differences because you guys aren't big feelers and that is what confuses me the most about you guys... It's almost robotic and very interesting...

  4. #4
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CocoB View Post
    As an Enfj myself i would have to ask what makes you think that we are not doing something to be "nice" or out of the kindness of our hearts?
    What i will say is that we are BIG "feelers" and we base majority of things off how we feel and how others may feel as well... Once we draw a conclusion about someone or something based on how they or their actions made us feel... We will usually stick with that. I think the ISTJ and ENFJ have some many differences because you guys aren't big feelers and that is what confuses me the most about you guys... It's almost robotic and very interesting...
    It's more of that I get frustrated seeing "kind actions " done just because it should be done or you feel it's the right thing to do. To me, that's basing my actions with other people on moral standards that will not be genuine and are asked of me, rather than choosing to do something on my own.

    As I explained to someone last night, my social interactions are more of getting a feel for the interaction with the other person. How is the other person acting? How do they seem to be interpreting me? Do I need to adjust myself? I let my feelings and experience guide the interaction, and say what I want to or make whatever social gestures I need to as I see necessary. I treat each interaction uniquely. That's why I reject the social conduct of Fe, because it imposes standards on me that go against my personal social conduct.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    As I explained to someone last night, my social interactions are more of getting a feel for the interaction with the other person. How is the other person acting? How do they seem to be interpreting me? Do I need to adjust myself? I let my feelings and experience guide the interaction, and say what I want to or make whatever social gestures I need to as I see necessary. I treat each interaction uniquely. That's why I reject the social conduct of Fe, because it imposes standards on me that go against my personal social conduct.
    So pretty much the difference between Te-Fi and Fe-Ti?

  6. #6
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    pretty much. I just tend to think, "My Fi goes totally against that Fe. My Fi is telling me basic human crap. I think something is wrong with those Fe people? Are they broken?"


  7. #7
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    I have an ISTJ arch nemesis and am glad that you posted this thread. He absolutely couldn't understand or accept how i function as a person and made assumptions about everything. He refused to be swayed by actually discussing it with me and listening to what i had to say.
    It was completely unwarranted, actually. My entire approach toward him was caring, respectful, and mature. For some reason, this bothered the holy hell out of him and he had some very strong negative opinions toward me / took to belittling me over various things.

    I've talked with ISTJs on the forum and there's not a lot of clashing in the interactions. I would say it's because they have a better understanding of what an ENFJ is in actuality and because i have gained a bit more of an understanding about them. I doubt we'd form any deep-rooted connections with one another or more than an 'i see how you are', but there is the ability to be civil.
    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    I told my sister that most of the sentences out of her mouth begin with "I think" and "I believe". I point it out because everything she says isn't always a fact, which frustrates me, and then she or other people get fooled into thinking it's true. It makes me want to murder babies.
    Suuup raz.
    Would you say your sister tends to be wrong about what she says she 'thinks' or 'believes'? Usually, the intuitions or observations that make me break out a slew of "think"s, "believe"s, and "feel"s end up being correct or verified. I use the terms because it isn't known at that exact moment or because it is based off of intuition.
    I could see that driving most Sensors absolutely batshit. We're always floating around in this misty gray area of could be and probably will, whereas sensors seem to need black and white areas of can and definitely is.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Sparrow's Avatar
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    ISTJ Weaknesses
    ________________________________________
    • Tendency to believe that they're always right
    • Tendency to get involved in "win-lose" conversations
    • Not naturally in-tune with what others are feeling
    • Their value for structure may seem rigid to others
    • Not likely to give enough praise or affirmation to their loved ones

    ENFJ Weaknesses
    ________________________________________
    • Tendency to be smothering and over-protective
    • Tendency to be controling and/or manipulative
    • Don't pay enough attention to their own needs
    • Tend to be critical of opinions and attitudes which don't match their own
    • Sometimes unaware of social appropriateness or protocol
    • Extremely sensitive to conflict, with a tendency to sweep things under the rug as an avoidance tactic
    • Tendency to blame themselves when things go wrong, and not give themselves credit when things go right
    • Their sharply defined value systems make them unbending in some areas
    • They may be so attuned to what is socially accepted or expected that they're unable to assess whether something is "right" or "wrong" outside of what their social circle expects.

    ISTJ Strengths
    ________________________________________
    • Honor their commitments
    • Take their relationship roles very seriously
    • Usually able to communicate what's on their minds with precision
    • Good listeners
    • Extremely good (albeit conservative) with money
    • Able to take constructive criticism well
    • Able to tolerate conflict situations without emotional upheaval
    • Able to dole out punishment or criticism when called for

    ENFJ Strengths
    ________________________________________
    • Good verbal communication skills
    • Very perceptive about people's thoughts and motives
    • Motivational, inspirational; bring out the best in others
    • Warmly affectionate and affirming
    • Fun to be with - lively sense of humor, dramatic, energetic, optimistic
    • Good money skills
    • Able to "move on" after a love relationship has failed (although they blame themselves)
    • Loyal and committed - they want lifelong relationships
    • Strive for "win-win" situations
    • Driven to meet other's needs

    The Personality Page

  9. #9
    Let's make this showy! raz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    I have an ISTJ arch nemesis and am glad that you posted this thread. He absolutely couldn't understand or accept how i function as a person and made assumptions about everything. He refused to be swayed by actually discussing it with me and listening to what i had to say.
    It was completely unwarranted, actually. My entire approach toward him was caring, respectful, and mature. For some reason, this bothered the holy hell out of him and he had some very strong negative opinions toward me / took to belittling me over various things.

    I've talked with ISTJs on the forum and there's not a lot of clashing in the interactions. I would say it's because they have a better understanding of what an ENFJ is in actuality and because i have gained a bit more of an understanding about them. I doubt we'd form any deep-rooted connections with one another or more than an 'i see how you are', but there is the ability to be civil.
    This sounds more like a personal viewpoint he has on you the person, not your personality. It seems with the information you gave, there are two possibilities: we're missing important information regarding your relationship, i.e. why you have this relationship, your daily dynamic, his attitude toward other people -or- he has other issues for being like that that go beyond his personality, such as his personal life, character problems, psychological issues, etc. Not all of conflict issues can be resolved with type. There are lots of times that I just don't like a person.

    Suuup raz.
    Would you say your sister tends to be wrong about what she says she 'thinks' or 'believes'? Usually, the intuitions or observations that make me break out a slew of "think"s, "believe"s, and "feel"s end up being correct or verified. I use the terms because it isn't known at that exact moment or because it is based off of intuition.
    I could see that driving most Sensors absolutely batshit. We're always floating around in this misty gray area of could be and probably will, whereas sensors seem to need black and white areas of can and definitely is.
    I'd say the intuitive hunches are right half the time. That's the thing, they're intuitive "hunches." I just see it as my duty to make sure I clarify which parts of the hunches are practical and which ones just do not coincide with reality. :P

    Another place where my sister and I conflicted was how she dealt with other people at work. She told me she came to figure how to deal with each person, what to do to communicate effectively with them after finding out how they thought and acted. The way it came off to me was that she was saying, "this person is like this, so I have to do this, this person is like that, so I have to do that to do things with them." To me, it came off as detached and strategic for someone who was trying to approach someone more personally. It looked like an effective strategy disguised as genuine caring rather than trying to be sincerely empathetic and connecting with the person. Like, for instance, she told me how she had to talk to another ISTJ I worked with. She said, "For her, you have to relate everything back to her, that's the only way she'll understand it." That was cold to me, because it should have been about what she needed, rather than how you deal with her.


  10. #10
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raz View Post
    This sounds more like a personal viewpoint he has on you the person, not your personality. It seems with the information you gave, there are two possibilities: we're missing important information regarding your relationship, i.e. why you have this relationship, your daily dynamic, his attitude toward other people -or- he has other issues for being like that that go beyond his personality, such as his personal life, character problems, psychological issues, etc. Not all of conflict issues can be resolved with type. There are lots of times that I just don't like a person.
    Yea. I can't say that either of us is the posterchild for our types, but the issues that were there became amplified due to the vast differences in type. It's a combination of missing information and his mental state. I'd say he was pretentious because he was mostly independent, but also felt threatened/inferior by how i handled life situations and having some feelings for him.
    The part that i couldn't fathom was why he was so opposed to me, yet peachy keen with everyone else. I can admit when i deserve to be disliked or when i'm just being generally abrasive, but my mature approaches rubbed him the absolute wrong way .

    I found the ISTJ-ENFJ thing to come into play is because ISTJs can have this tactic of "That's not good enough" due to their core values. Obviously made worse when they are unhealthy. Being ENFJ made me run through a death loop of assessing it and wanting to fix it or close off from it, while i couldn't exactly (or i could have, but he was already interlaced with 4 other friendships). It's just a lot of details and blathering over someone who didn't have enough self-awareness. Now it just makes me want to poke at ISTJs when they are about

    I'd say the intuitive hunches are right half the time. That's the thing, they're intuitive "hunches." I just see it as my duty to make sure I clarify which parts of the hunches are practical and which ones just do not coincide with reality. :P

    Another place where my sister and I conflicted was how she dealt with other people at work. She told me she came to figure how to deal with each person, what to do to communicate effectively with them after finding out how they thought and acted. The way it came off to me was that she was saying, "this person is like this, so I have to do this, this person is like that, so I have to do that to do things with them." To me, it came off as detached and strategic for someone who was trying to approach someone more personally. It looked like an effective strategy disguised as genuine caring rather than trying to be sincerely empathetic and connecting with the person. Like, for instance, she told me how she had to talk to another ISTJ I worked with. She said, "For her, you have to relate everything back to her, that's the only way she'll understand it." That was cold to me, because it should have been about what she needed, rather than how you deal with her.
    How does she take the clarifications?
    Beating down the ENFJ idealism should be an ISTJ mantra lol. You destroy our land. You kill our children. You prostitute our women to your ranks. Will it ever stop?!

    Hmm. It's the ENFJ way to chameleon ourselves to relate to other people. I'd say a lot of us mean well, but a lot do get caught up in trying to help anyone and everyone. As we grow and become more self-aware, we're able to better sort through who we really care to help and will mold ourselves to see things from their perspective and make their interaction with us more comfortable.
    It can definitely seem way too cold and calculated, especially if we leave out our emotions toward it in an explanation. Think we get into some assessment mode after we establish something/someone is important enough.
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


    .:: DWTWD ::.

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    2011 TypeC Exercise Challenge - My Weekly Goals: Cardio 4x. Yoga/Pilates 1x. Pushups 70.

    There is this thing keeping everyone's lungs and lips locked - It is called fear and it's seeing a great renaissance

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