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  1. #41
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You use your functions as much as you use your internal organs.
    I think there is more conscious control than that.

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  2. #42
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    This is just nitpicking semantics. People use figures of speech on this board & taking it too literally just makes conversation heavy-handed & annoying. And this kind of "folk typology" is soooo serious after all, as dire as global warming :rolli:.

    I take "use" to mean the function is the thought process the brain is using by default of sorts, not a conscious, deliberate employment of a function. In the same way, people are said to "prefer" a function in the sense that it's how they're oriented; it's not a conscious preference.

    When people talk about using their "Te" or whatever, they are analyzing their behavior & the thought process behind it to hypothesize what function may be operating & how. It's as someone here says (peacebaby?), separating all of your functions can be like trying to unbake a cake. You can guess some ingredients by taste, but you might also be very off sometimes. However, it doesn't make it any less fun to try (maybe more so).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  3. #43
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    If I'm catching this correctly, I learned the following two things from some recent reading:

    1. We can only use one function at a time. We move across and between them but only one can be used at a particular moment.

    2. If our dominant function is introverted, the content/outputs from it come out through the filter of an extroverted function (like the auxiliary). This is what makes it hard, for example, to discern if someone is dominant Fi. The signs are not aways obvious.

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  4. #44
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    If I'm catching this correctly, I learned the following two things from some recent reading:

    1. We can only use one function at a time. We move across and between them but only one can be used at a particular moment.
    I would disagree with this, I would say that they're constantly working in tandem. Let's say that the function order is kind of like a top-heavy see-saw, the heavy side being the dominant function and the other side being the inferior function. The auxiliary and tertiary act as the two riders of the see-saw, acting on behalf of their introverted/extraverted counterpart.

    If one side outweighs the other too much (which can easily happen if we allow it, since this see-saw is top-heavy), then the see-saw stops moving and no one benefits. If both sides work in tandem, however, then the see-saw is constantly moving and everyone is happy (untin everyone needs a rest, of course).
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  5. #45
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I would disagree with this, I would say that they're constantly working in tandem. Let's say that the function order is kind of like a top-heavy see-saw, the heavy side being the dominant function and the other side being the inferior function. The auxiliary and tertiary act as the two riders of the see-saw, acting on behalf of their introverted/extraverted counterpart.

    If one side outweighs the other too much (which can easily happen if we allow it, since this see-saw is top-heavy), then the see-saw stops moving and no one benefits. If both sides work in tandem, however, then the see-saw is constantly moving and everyone is happy (untin everyone needs a rest, of course).
    With a see-saw, one side exerts force while the other side relaxes. They take turns. I think that is the concept that was being described. It is a question as to whether we support single threading or multi-threading.

    I don't know the answer but it seemed like an interesting perspective.

    I've also read that certain functions can only talk to certain functions - something to do with brain circuitry.

    Why do you think two functions can operate simultaneously?

    Do you think that more than two can run at the same time?

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  6. #46
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    I'm sort of a hybrid between the two. Perception and judgment can happen nearly simultaneously, but you cannot use different perception [or judging] functions simultaneously. There's always a bit of a "flip the switch" type of thing.



  7. #47
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Ok, so the see-saw was a bad analogy - but I do think that the functions work together, and that seperating them only serves to better identify their unique contribution to the rest of the system. So they're always working in tandem, like the cogs in a pocketwatch.
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  8. #48
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    With a see-saw, one side exerts force while the other side relaxes. They take turns. I think that is the concept that was being described. It is a question as to whether we support single threading or multi-threading.

    I don't know the answer but it seemed like an interesting perspective.

    I've also read that certain functions can only talk to certain functions - something to do with brain circuitry.

    Why do you think two functions can operate simultaneously?

    Do you think that more than two can run at the same time?
    i think we need a cognitive neuroscientist in the thread...

    i seem to remember from neuropsych class that with conscious thought, the mind has to switch back and forth, like a computer. we can multitask, and we can do it quick enough that it seems like both are going at once, but in reality, you lose a bit of efficiency in the time it takes to switch between the tasks - if the tasks use the same brain processes, that is.

    but thinking about data input and memory storage, external processes and internal processes would occur in different places, so i would think they could be happening at the same time? i would also imagine one goes subconscious while the other is conscious. i think Ni is stereotypically subconscious - that "eureka!" moment, for example, breaking the surface seemingly out of nowhere. and Fi - when you have a strong value, you generally know right away when something clashes with it. you don't really need to actively think about it. and when you get the suspicion someone's lying, it's more of a general feeling that arises.

    this would be interesting to think about in terms of combinations... if it were accurate, then would an ENFP have NeFi and TeSi as their typical patterns, or use NeSi and TeFi too? would they be more likely to use NeSi than TeFi? hmmm

    this is all just thinking off the top of my head, tear it apart as you please lol

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    ROLY POLY
    [YOUTUBE="3lKCUuyojDI"]the roly poly man, roly poly[/YOUTUBE]

  10. #50
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    You don't 'use' the functions, they are you. Used means that you can not use them, but in order to not use them you are in fact not thinking, which is impossible as long as you have eyes and ears.

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