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  1. #21
    Senior Member BlueGray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You should have seen a female ENTP and a female INTP going at it last year.
    I've never seen such a bunch of ridiculous drivel in my life. No meaning, no purpose, no nothing.
    This went on forever. Pages and pages and pages. Squawking birds.
    This makes me want to read it...
    Ne > Ti > Si >> Te > Se >> Fe > Fi > Ni
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    This makes me want to read it...
    You wouldn't be able to. When things get out of hand, a mod steps in and swings the axe in sections.
    Then those posts get thrown in the graveyard, or maybe even deleted.

  3. #23
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Ah, emoticons. That hopefully scared off all the INTPs. Now we can slam discuss them in peace.
    It should have.

    Unfortunately for you, I've spent years developing an immunity to smileys.

    "Ad hominem", "logical fallacies" "red herring" "strawman argument" "circular fallacy" "Scrotum reasoning" BLAH all of this Harvard latin jargon...

    Is all of that? (Sorry, just had to get rid of any INTP scragglers...) They will go ON and ON with their snooty armchair philosophy legal studies debates, and the only red herrings I know of belong in my SAMMICH.
    It's because we are more interesed in the discussion itself rather than what is being discussed. HOW we discuss things -- framework and underlying foundation -- is more important than content because even correct facts are wrong if placed in wrong context.

    Think of it like current web page methodology or coding methodology: Content needs to be separate from code, it's usually stored in a database. The code and layout format is a framework into which content is poured in. While many people will debate the content, INTPs are far more prone to debate the code itself and the framework itself, to make sure that everything is being framed correctly lest the content be made inaccurate.

    As far as straw men and all that junk goes, that's just shorthand to convey typical illogic pitfalls, rather than having to explain every time what someone is doing wrong.

    I hope it wasn't too annoying to get a serious response to a somewhat tongue-in-cheek OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You should have seen a female ENTP and a female INTP going at it last year.
    I've never seen such a bunch of ridiculous drivel in my life. No meaning, no purpose, no nothing.
    This went on forever. Pages and pages and pages. Squawking birds.
    Well, despite everything above, I agree. Gets monotonous fast. I'm too old for that crap nowadays.

    ENTP dynamics are fun, they're usually just dancing around trying to provoke a response. The INTP ends up providing a serious response analyzing the ENTP comments. The ENTP provokes another response. The INTP tries to settle it.

    ... I guess I fell into that in this post, didn't I?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #24
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    I don't use those logical terms very often, if at all. Probably because I never learnt them.

    It's because we are more interesed in the discussion itself rather than what is being discussed. HOW we discuss things -- framework and underlying foundation -- is more important than content because even correct facts are wrong if placed in wrong context.
    This doesn't apply to me really. I'm most interested in the content of the discussion.

    ENTP dynamics are fun, they're usually just dancing around trying to provoke a response. The INTP ends up providing a serious response analyzing the ENTP comments. The ENTP provokes another response.
    I don't find that fun, I find it trollish and perverse.

    This is probably why although 3 of my best friends IRL are/were ENTP's and I was really close to them, it is one of the types I get on least with online (edit: with some notable exceptions!)
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #25
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I don't use those logical terms very often, if at all. Probably because I never learnt them.
    I didn't learn them until I went onto online forums, although I saw some of them while studying Christian apologetics.

    This doesn't apply to me really. I'm most interested in the content of the discussion.
    Good for you. I'm describing the INTP archetype, not specific individuals, although I guess my terminology wasn't clear.

    I don't find that fun, I find it trollish and perverse.
    So do I, in general, but I understand they aren't typically doing it to be trollish and perverse. So it changes how I respond. It's part of learning how to accommodate each other or have the proper framework in mind so that you can negotiate and change the interaction.

    Yeah, I get along great with ENTPs IRL but online sometimes I still get angry.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    You should have seen a female ENTP and a female INTP going at it last year.
    I've never seen such a bunch of ridiculous drivel in my life. No meaning, no purpose, no nothing.
    This went on forever. Pages and pages and pages. Squawking birds.
    Not type related



  7. #27
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    So do I, in general, but I understand they aren't typically doing it to be trollish and perverse. So it changes how I respond. It's part of learning how to accommodate each other or have the proper framework in mind so that you can negotiate and change the interaction.
    Fair enough.

    Thing is it's not all ENTP's nor is it characteristic of ones I know in person. Maybe it's to do with an Ne-Fe loop.

    (Also I think there's soemthing particular about those two functions that makes them hard to get together, as both seem "arbitrarily argumentative". A Pi-Ji loop may not be pretty, but it's self-referential. A Pe-Te loop is more clearly tied to an original premise. Ne-Fe loop is just bewildering. But I guess I should try to understand it better.)
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #28
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Fair enough.

    Thing is it's not all ENTP's nor is it characteristic of ones I know in person. Maybe it's to do with an Ne-Fe loop.
    That's an interesting way to look at it, with a link between primary and tertiary?

    (Also I think there's soemthing particular about those two functions that makes them hard to get together, as both seem "arbitrarily argumentative". A Pi-Ji loop may not be pretty, but it's self-referential.
    Example: Si + Ti (or flipped around)

    A Pe-Te loop is more clearly tied to an original premise. Ne-Fe loop is just bewildering. But I guess I should try to understand it better.)
    How could we describe the structure of the Ne-Fe loop using ENTP behavior as an example? (I can describe Ti-Si pretty well.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #29
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    I read the thread and I get a ~great idea~ for a post. I type it up and hit submit before thinking it through. Then someone takes a look at my post and goes 'hmm, that is really insightful! You're awesome!' and I get super happy and try to keep coming up with more similar ideas in order to gain more positive feedback or reinforce the positive image. Or, someone looks at it and says, "no, you're wrong, that's stupid" and I get all defensive and sarcastic or trolly, spewing out whatever nasty garbage I can come up with. Or someone says "the problem with that is [x]" and that engages my Ti and then I go into INTP debate mode, like the OP describes. Either divining and pointing out the flaws in their argument/reasoning or conceding my own.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  10. #30
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    How could we describe the structure of the Ne-Fe loop using ENTP behavior as an example? (I can describe Ti-Si pretty well.)
    One ENTP described it to me as "a shallow popularity contest".

    In my own words, I kind of think of someone first throwing out a mix of loosely connected concepts, or answering an idea they dislike with a loosely conencted criticism (Ne),

    and then rather than delving into their own reasoning to explore possible faults (Ti),

    instead backing up their "brainstorming" with insinuations against the other person to suggest "if you don't agree, it's because of x shortcoming" (Fe).

    (I can't think of an example off the top of my head though).
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

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