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  1. #101
    As Long As It Takes.... Redbone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyboy View Post
    Among INTPs there is a love of intellectual discourse to be sure, and many sport a rather pedantic verbiage. For those whose posts favor brevity, and whose spoken words are few, there is no inconsistency (Why not use a single word that represents a sentence or more?). It is the few who choose to sprinkle their long-winded lectures with little gems from their handy-dandy-thesauri who are apt to put others to sleep.

    Also, the INTP often misses the point of intellectual conversation (to adequately transfer information), and fails to express himself in a way that resonates with his audience; vomiting his words at the feet of his listeners, so to speak.
    Where's the cuffs? Guilty.....

  2. #102
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You're right, as usual, but the search of fallacies isn't especially associated with INTPs.
    As a matter of fact, the vast majority of INTPs here don't even know what a real "strawman" fallacy is, they just use the term inappropriately and for every purpose. It's just a standard, pedantic (but ignorant) way to say they disagree with you. Epistemological figures aren't that easy to understand or master, unless, like you said, you had been professionally trained to recognize them.

    And if you ask them the difference between a deduction, an abduction, an induction or a transduction, most of them won't know how to answer it, unless they google it and try to mimick knowledge they don't really possess.

    Remember that most young INTPs are just posers.
    A strawman fallacy basically means 'missing the point and steaming way past it.' If you said "Abortion is wrong" and I went off on you about how you shouldn't be allowed to control my body and that taking away my rights is far more wrong than abortion, that would be a straw man, because although it's generally implied that people want to stop others from doing things they consider wrong, you never said anything to indicate that this is true for you.

    I find that people who accuse others of attacking straw men are generally correct in doing so; it's just that they are often guilty of the same problem, and the one so accused generally won't respond to the accusation by reframing their perceptions.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  3. #103
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcockburn View Post
    Jesus Christ. Look at the two of you go. And considering what my whole post was about.

    This is practically satire material.
    Actually I didn't use any Latin Words.

    kendoiwan - I'll write a reply on your wall if you're interested.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #104
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    A strawman fallacy basically means 'missing the point and steaming way past it.' If you said "Abortion is wrong" and I went off on you about how you shouldn't be allowed to control my body and that taking away my rights is far more wrong than abortion, that would be a straw man, because although it's generally implied that people want to stop others from doing things they consider wrong, you never said anything to indicate that this is true for you.
    This is misguided. To commit the "straw man" fallacy is to misrepresent an opponent's position and then proceed to disprove this distortion, whilst claiming that your interlocutor's actual argument has been successfully refuted.

  5. #105
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helios View Post
    This is misguided. To commit the "straw man" fallacy is to misrepresent an opponent's position and then proceed to disprove this distortion, whilst claiming that your interlocutor's actual argument has been successfully refuted.
    Right. The misrepresentation is assuming they want to apply their moral ethics to me. The argument against the misrepresentation is "taking away my rights is far more wrong than abortion".

    I don't have to explicitly state the misrepresentation, or explicitly claim victory, for it to be a straw man fallacy.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  6. #106
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    Right. The misrepresentation is assuming they want to apply their moral ethics to me. The argument against the misrepresentation is "taking away my rights is far more wrong than abortion".

    I don't have to explicitly state the misrepresentation, or explicitly claim victory, for it to be a straw man fallacy.
    Your example was unclear, and I still feel that you remain confused about the fallacy as it is conventionally understood. Committing the straw man fallacy has little to do with either unwarranted assumptions per se or, "'missing the point and steaming way past it'". To commit it is to do something quite specific, viz. what I mentioned in my previous post, or else something closely akin to this.

  7. #107
    null Jonny's Avatar
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    Helios is right, Blairvoyant. I think you were mistaken in your understanding. Nothing wrong with being wrong... unless you're an INTP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #108
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    fuck you

    p.s. all formal fallacies are based on a common cognitive bias/error. it's unlikely for anyone to commit a strawman fallacy without following the formula I described, even though it might be theoretically possible.
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  9. #109
    Senior Member Helios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blairvoyant View Post
    fuck you

    p.s. all formal fallacies are based on a common cognitive bias/error. it's unlikely for anyone to commit a strawman fallacy without following the formula I described, even though it might be theoretically possible.
    The straw man fallacy is not a formal fallacy, but an informal one.

    If you'd like a bigger shovel, I could fetch you one.

  10. #110
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    You're right, as usual, but the search of fallacies isn't especially associated with INTPs.
    As a matter of fact, the vast majority of INTPs here don't even know what a real "strawman" fallacy is, they just use the term inappropriately and for every purpose. It's just a standard, pedantic (but ignorant) way to say they disagree with you. Epistemological figures aren't that easy to understand or master, unless, like you said, you had been professionally trained to recognize them.

    And if you ask them the difference between a deduction, an abduction, an induction or a transduction, most of them won't know how to answer it, unless they google it and try to mimick knowledge they don't really possess.

    Remember that most young INTPs are just posers poseurs.
    FYP. :P

    It was a close-run thing, but I reckon the French ENTP just won the fancy-schmancy snootiness contest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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