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  1. #111
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    ESTP in my experience. INTPs? C'mon, being misanthropic is different from being indipendent - having sufficient contact with a large amount of people is a pre-requiste to check if you're indipendent or not.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  2. #112
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTPness View Post
    But, I also want to point out that we have valuable skills. Our skills are usually the ones that sensors aren't as good at, and vice versa. We're at our best, when we learn to put these skills together and help each other out.
    Absolutely!! Nature has done an awesome job of distributing type across populations according to the need for the skills of each type/temperament/function - we have only to look at an ant colony that will only survive with the correct proportion of soldiers, workers etc.

    Ironically, where even the flawed MBTI could be best used in team building, research has shown that most managers employ types that either mirror their own type or that are least threatening in their eyes!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
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  3. #113
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    ESTP in my experience. INTPs? C'mon, being misanthropic is different from being indipendent - having sufficient contact with a large amount of people is a pre-requiste to check if you're indipendent or not.
    I wasn't aware that misanthropy was another prerequisite for INTPs Gosh - I have been living a lie all of this time!!
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  4. #114
    Senior Member The Outsider's Avatar
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    INFP, because I say so.

  5. #115
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I have a hard time seeing extroverts as independent because they seem so reliant on people to feed them energy.
    Extroverts don't need people to fee them energy, they need external stimuli.

    I could survive 365 days a year playing videogames.


    (then again I've tested INTP in 3 of the 4 last tests I took, but thats another story)

  6. #116
    Senior Member Moonstone3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    INTPs, INTJs, and ISTPs are probably the most independent types for different reasons.

    If every human were to disappear from earth and they were the only ones left I think they would have an easier time adapting to a world without other people, some of them might even enjoy a world without people.
    I agree. That's the type of independence that I was really thinking about. It took me a day to process, but I like this perspective. People independence. There it is.
    What is normal to one, is incomprehensible to another.

    ALL anger in this world stems from a lack of control.


    All of reality bows to the illusion of life and death.

  7. #117
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    INTPs? C'mon, being misanthropic is different from being indipendent - having sufficient contact with a large amount of people is a pre-requiste to check if you're indipendent or not.
    If someone doesn't rely on people or desire lots of contact, they may be misanthropic (or they may not), but they are definitely independent. If we set misanthropy aside for a minute (an INTP may be one, or he may not be one), and just look at a sliding scale of being "dependent/independent":

    dependent <--0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10--> independent

    I can assure you that whether I am misanthropic or not, I am nowhere near the left side of that scale.

    I'm not arguing that INTP's are more independent than ESTP's. I'm just making the point that if someone is indeed a misanthrope (big "if"), that certainly doesn't exclude them from being independent. Not at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    I wasn't aware that misanthropy was another prerequisite for INTPs
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  8. #118
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Responding to a few points that I missed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    The definition of "independence" was also vaguely established. By nature, Ni-dom's for certain are the "revolutionaries" that revolutionize our world. Does that strike as "independence" to you?
    Yes, it does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    INTP's independence is usually a lack of care for the "goal". It's that person who criticizes a model or a person who's motivated by the process of work.
    INTPs do seem to be more about the process of getting there than the result. How this is "independence" though?

    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    I'd say the most independent types are INTJ>ISTP>ESTP>INTP>ENTP>ENTJ>INFP>ISFP>ESFP>INFJ> ENFJ>ENFP>ISTJ>ESTJ>ESFJ>ISFJ more or less in that order.
    The more I think about it, the more I like this ordering. I'm not sure about placement of ESTP (I'd rank lower) and ISTJ (I'd rank higher) but otherwise, it looks pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    Would you agree that Extraverted Judgment functions are the most "dependent" functions? Would you agree that specifically Extraverted Feeling IS the most "dependent" function? On average, Will an ExFJ work better than an ExTJ alone? Will ExxJ's work better alone than ExxP's?

    If you agree that Je is the most dependent on "people stimuli", then certainly Ji is the least dependent on "people stimuli".
    I would agree that Fe is the most dependent function but don't agree that extraverted judgment functions are the most dependent functions. I'd also suggest that Ni is the most independent function by a long shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    ISTPs and ITJs.
    This is what I would have thought before reading this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    INTJs, with no close competitors.
    +1

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  9. #119
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yes, it does.
    Then, you were working with a different type of "independence".



    INTPs do seem to be more about the process of getting there than the result. How this is "independence" though?
    It's independent of "external 'Je stimuli". "I am not pressured to do this and finish that." It has less care for practical, which is external, goal. TiNe doesn't have to go to the "practical world". NiTe does.

    Ni, by itself (which is impossible), is as independent as Ti but where it is mainly judged is based on Je(external association). On independence, Ti = Ni. But TiNe =/= NiTe.

    I would agree that Fe is the most dependent function but don't agree that extraverted judgment functions are the most dependent functions. I'd also suggest that Ni is the most independent function by a long shot.
    Ni is independent in that it is "unique". Ti is independent in that it doesn't care about whether it's unique, special or what. Ti is the supreme opposite of Fe wherein judgments rely on the impersonal self, not outward based. Though even if it is the opposite, it doesn't constitute as the *most* independent.

    Another error I've made in my last "hierarchy" was that I didn't include all cognitive functions to affect certain types. For example, INTJ's have Ni but also have Tertiary Fi. Tertiary Fi has a certain degree of "independence" especially in that cognitive slot.

  10. #120
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    It's independent of "external 'Je stimuli". "I am not pressured to do this and finish that." It has less care for practical, which is external, goal. TiNe doesn't have to go to the "practical world". NiTe does.

    Ni, by itself (which is impossible), is as independent as Ti but where it is mainly judged is based on Je(external association). On independence, Ti = Ni. But TiNe =/= NiTe.


    Ni is independent in that it is "unique". Ti is independent in that it doesn't care about whether it's unique, special or what. Ti is the supreme opposite of Fe wherein judgments rely on the impersonal self, not outward based. Though even if it is the opposite, it doesn't constitute as the *most* independent.

    Another error I've made in my last "hierarchy" was that I didn't include all cognitive functions to affect certain types. For example, INTJ's have Ni but also have Tertiary Fi. Tertiary Fi has a certain degree of "independence" especially in that cognitive slot.
    If you look at this through a function lens, it might be right to pick the first two. Tertiary influence is relatively weak in comparison to dominant and auxiliary. (edit) Maybe you could apply weighting based on function order.

    I can see your point on not being pressured by an external goal. I guess, my bias is towards this definition, "freedom from control or influence of another or others." The key is being controlled or influenced by other people. In that context, I think practicality of orientation and independence are not highly correlated. Ni is rather irrational and yet the influence of it is huge for INxJ. Others don't see it so it is hard for them to understand. They see the Te/Fe. It's a bit of a paradox because I think most INTJs would see themselves as very rational people and yet they are internally governed by this irrational and unconscious function. A couple more quotes from Gifts Differing that might be helpful:

    "Thinking or feeling judgment is vitally necessary, and introverted intuitives must develop it for themselves, because their utter conviction of their intuition's validity makes them impervious to the influence of outside judgment"

    "It follows that these people cannot be successfully coerced. They will not even be told anything without their permission, but they will accept an offer of facts, opinions, or theories, for free consideration"

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