User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 54

  1. #11
    From the Undertow CuriousFeeling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INfJ
    Enneagram
    4w5 sp/sx
    Socionics
    EII
    Posts
    3,456

    Default

    Never been that crazy about religion. I think it's based on authority and scaring people to do what is right because they'll go to Hell. I tend to go my own way with spirituality. Even when I used Fe a bit more as a kid, I wasn't a fan of the authority factor of most religious figures. Seemed more like "my beliefs are better than theirs, you must obey and be good" type of attitude, which I think fosters intolerance. Not sure if religious beliefs are purely Fe based, perhaps a combination of Fe and Fi.

    I have some Christian beliefs, but on the most part, I'm agnostic. I don't like having to conform to a set doctrine of rules that I don't believe in. I think people should do moral actions to benefit humanity as a whole, rather than appease to authority.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Johari/Nohari

    “Thoughts are the shadows of our feelings -- always darker, emptier and simpler.”
    ― Friedrich Nietzsche




  2. #12
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Interesting... and this is sort of off-topic, but that seems to be how new religions are born. I think it's how Christianity was born, how Islam was born, how all the different permutations of each were born. All those Fi users though typically need somebody around whom to... rally, though, someone to articulate the vision. I wonder if religious founders tend to be Fi or Fe users.


    More later...!
    I think that many of them would be horrified at the interpretations placed over the centuries on their thoughts and words by mankind wanting to control the perception of that religion.

    It also makes me ask - what is religion as opposed to spirituality - and in what is the faith in that religion vested?

    Is it in the man made rituals and symbolism or the original truths that have more than likely suffered from "Chinese Whispers" over the hundreds of years since they walked the earth? (with apologies to those of Chinese heritage - just not sure what else to call that particular children's game)
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  3. #13
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    actually one of the things that pisses me off the most about organized religions may be Fe based... I see them as doing more harm in the world in a lot of cases than they do good... it's incredibly rare that I see any religious group actually DOING good works and helping their fellow human beings... the religion may be based on the principle of being kind and good to others, but I keep getting a creepy feeling that telling people that they're headed to hell, smiting non-beleivers and televangilism aren't exactly things that go along with those principles
    I cannot help but agree with this
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  4. #14
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    and to add to mine... what pisses me off the most about religion is that the churches aren't nice enough... they're too closed off from the world in their own happy little insular space :steam:
    A few years ago I had a disagreement with a wealthy, religious man who was boasting about the architecturally superior meeting place he was building in a very disadvantaged community. I argued that the pomp of the building was unimportant and unnecessary, and would possibly keep away the very people they purported to want to help.

    He was a bit shocked when I suggested that he tone down the building in favor of spending more money on sporting equipment and uniforms for the kids so that they felt like they belonged, and a fund that could help kids attend camps where their parents were too poor to pay for them to participate.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  5. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    STP
    Posts
    10,499

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    A few years ago I had a disagreement with a wealthy, religious man who was boasting about the architecturally superior meeting place he was building in a very disadvantaged community. I argued that the pomp of the building was unimportant and unnecessary, and would possibly keep away the very people they purported to want to help.

    He was a bit shocked when I suggested that he tone down the building in favor of spending more money on sporting equipment and uniforms for the kids so that they felt like they belonged, and a fund that could help kids attend camps where their parents were too poor to pay for them to participate.
    What if God was one of us
    Just a slob like one of us
    Just a stranger on the bus
    Trying to make his way home

    We have role models and we have those we can relate to. Dreams vs Reality.
    Im out, its been fun

  6. #16
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    827 sp/so
    Posts
    20,122

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by InsatiableCuriosity View Post
    A few years ago I had a disagreement with a wealthy, religious man who was boasting about the architecturally superior meeting place he was building in a very disadvantaged community. I argued that the pomp of the building was unimportant and unnecessary, and would possibly keep away the very people they purported to want to help.

    He was a bit shocked when I suggested that he tone down the building in favor of spending more money on sporting equipment and uniforms for the kids so that they felt like they belonged, and a fund that could help kids attend camps where their parents were too poor to pay for them to participate.
    that just seems like a case of someone wanting to feel that they were doing good on their own terms without the least bit of concern for those involved

    It reminds me of a debate that arose while I was staying with some socially active nuns in Brazil... one of the nuns ran an organization that collected donations of everything from eyeglasses to clothes to medical equipment like crutches to help out people who were in need of assistance... a wealthy parish in the US wanted to donate money for a fancy stained glass window for a church and she was offended because that didn't help anyone... she suggested that they send a new van to help people get to doctor's appointments instead- the American parish was infuriated, which seemed rediculous to me
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  7. #17
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by poki View Post
    We have role models and we have those we can relate to. Dreams vs Reality.
    Love the song and agree
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  8. #18
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    i don't like the money floating around churches either. (i mean, not that it doesn;t have to exist..but just like what insatiablecuriousity said.. if it's there, why not actually do even more good with it)

    there's a famous preacher in my town... john hagee. maybe some people are fans of his here, not sure. his church literally looks like a mini holy roman empire or something tho. the bad part though is that he himself lives in the city's most exclusive neighborhood, where all the pro sports players and entertainers live. those houses are beyond pimp. and it's pretty lame for a clergyman imo. he preaches and writes "prophecy" books. it's not like he got this cash from actually working (and no, preaching is not working).

  9. #19
    Senior Member InsatiableCuriosity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    that just seems like a case of someone wanting to feel that they were doing good on their own terms without the least bit of concern for those involved

    It reminds me of a debate that arose while I was staying with some socially active nuns in Brazil... one of the nuns ran an organization that collected donations of everything from eyeglasses to clothes to medical equipment like crutches to help out people who were in need of assistance... a wealthy parish in the US wanted to donate money for a fancy stained glass window for a church and she was offended because that didn't help anyone... she suggested that they send a new van to help people get to doctor's appointments instead- the American parish was infuriated, which seemed rediculous to me
    Absolutely!! I just googled the exact words of a quote from Matthew 6:3 "But when you give to someone in need, don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing."** People tend to forget this and prefer to have recognition - case and point telethons where many people will give so that their name will be printed on screen or read out.

    **I own to no established religion now but feel closest probably to Buddhism.
    "Study hard what interests you the most in the most undisciplined, irreverent and original manner possible."
    — Richard P. Feynman

    "Never tell a person a thing is impossible. G*d/the Universe may have been waiting all this time for someone ignorant enough of the impossibility to do just that thing."
    author unknown

  10. #20
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,522

    Default

    Interesting thread. Here is a mixed-bag reply touching on many of the previous posts.

    I can see the tension between Fe and Fi in the communal worship setting. It is possible for such environments to strike a balance, providing a communal experience that does not sacrifice individuality. As an example, I have attended groups which observe a commonality of practice, while encouraging a diversity of belief. The group used a standard ritual, prayers, etc. that everyone was familiar with, making it easy for everyone to participate, but each was free to interpret the words and symbols in his or her own way.

    Of course, most people will still tend to gravitate toward religious groups that share some commonality of faith, also. Churches, at least today, are mostly voluntary associations of people; someone whose personal beliefs diverge significantly from their church can find another. But any religion or church is at best an approximation of highly individual faith. When we buy shoes, we don't have them custom-made to our feet, we buy the size off the shelf that is the closest match. Similarly with churches. We find a fit that is "good enough" and trust that any difference can be accommodated - and are understandably disappointed when it is not.

    If we are "shopping" for a church or religion in this way, however, we will have a hard time if we do not understand what our own beliefs really are. I see this as the domain of Fi. Someone more attuned to Fe may be more likely to mirror or take on the beliefs of others based upon the social reinforcement. It may be awhile before their Fe, or perhaps even Ti, catches up with them, resulting in dissatisfaction or disillusionment.

    As for the T functions, I would expect Ti to demand consistency, Te to demand utility, and both to demand objective honesty. By this I mean that, if some aspect of faith is a paradox (inherently contradictory or illogical) that just must be accepted by the believer, one must be honest about this and not try to pretend it is somehow logical.

    I tend to associate I/ENFJ with religious founders. The Ni allows Fe to promote an external social agenda that is different from existing norm, much as for E/INTJ it allows Te to promote an objective system different from the norm. If someone has Fi in their top few functions, then they also have Ne/Se, meaning that they deal with the external world primarily using a perceiving function. Such a person may have innovative spiritual thoughts, but less drive to promote them to others.

    Here is my personal understanding of the difference between spirituality and religion:

    Spirituality: attentiveness to a spiritual dimension of life, to include the possibility of deity or supreme being(s), a universal consciousness, the continuation of the soul/individual essence after physical death, etc. Faith in this context is what an individual actually believes about the above.

    Religion: an established tradition or set of procedures, teachings, and structure within which to address spiritual matters. Faith in this context includes faith/confidence/acceptance that the procedures, teachings, and structure will be helpful in developing one's personal spirituality.

Similar Threads

  1. F vs Fi and Fe?
    By Tyrinth in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-07-2012, 10:26 AM
  2. Fe/Fi and the desire to improve empathy and social abilities?
    By TenebrousReflection in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-26-2011, 03:01 PM
  3. What's the difference between hurt Fe and hurt Fi?
    By Thalassa in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 07-25-2010, 01:32 AM
  4. The Influence of Si on Fi and Fe
    By Thalassa in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-04-2010, 08:26 PM
  5. [NF] Fi and Fe: Trying to Understand and Illustrate the Difference (in my head)
    By VagrantFarce in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-24-2010, 12:38 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO