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Thread: T women & F men

  1. #41
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    INFJ-ENTP

    I'd have to dig up an INFJ male from somewhere to try that one. I know they're supposed to be the best pairing for the ENTP. But from the comments here, INFJs sound kind of like some kind of dark, wounded, bushbaby, and as rare as a white truffle to boot. Am not certain a loopy, ENTP wouldn't wound them more and drive them nuts trying to close the myriad tangents actually, thereby reducing their endangered population even further.
    Actually, if I am ever so lucky as to encounter an ENTP and get romantically involved with them, then I will probably marry them. That type absolutely amazes me because they can cut me to the quick, but they do it in such a way that makes me laugh instead of feel bad about myself. I really love how they will listen to your opinions and critique where your logic is faulty. And they are capable of understand intuitive ideas that seem baseless to INTPs. They are like the ultimate clarifiers for INFJs, whereas I think the INFJ would provide a constant enigma that would forever entertain an ENTP.

  2. #42
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    yeah entp girls are awesome. best/most intensely honest/intellectual relationship i've ever had.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Actually, if I am ever so lucky as to encounter an ENTP and get romantically involved with them, then I will probably marry them. That type absolutely amazes me because they can cut me to the quick, but they do it in such a way that makes me laugh instead of feel bad about myself. I really love how they will listen to your opinions and critique where your logic is faulty. And they are capable of understand intuitive ideas that seem baseless to INTPs. They are like the ultimate clarifiers for INFJs, whereas I think the INFJ would provide a constant enigma that would forever entertain an ENTP.
    Curious, Kiddo. So what does the bushbaby bring to the ENTP? I could imagine myself constantly walking on glass if I were to be with an injured, cynical critter you know, and never quite sure how to read the INFJ. Is this the enigma you mean?

    Right now I have this image of the ENTP in natural state, bubbling with ideas, but not sure to say them or not because the bushbaby could take it as a knife to their metaphorical fragile hearts, and then they twist it over and over by themselves and anything you say after that makes more daggers to them? I'm not sure whom'd be more damaged from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    yeah entp girls are awesome. best/most intensely honest/intellectual relationship i've ever had.
    ENTP girls are awesome. From a distance usually.

    My friends thought so till I led everyone on a 21km hike and climb in the Laotian wilderness when I decided on a whim that 7km was walkable, but neglected to factor in the return trip, certain detours that I just had to explore, the 60 degree incline at certain sections and the fact that we were walking in slippers. I think the only reason I'm still around now is because they were too exhausted to lift a finger against me that night. I was banished to sleep on the floor though.

    ENTPs can be hazardous to the health actually.

  4. #44
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    I like T women as friends but would not want one in a relationship with me.

    The problem is that more heterosexual women, whether Thinking or Feeling tend to be attracted to Thinking rather than Feeling men. And more heterosexual men, whether Thinking or Feeling tend to be attracted to Feeling rather than Thinking women. This is because heterosexuals tend to still be more attracted to what represents for them the archetype of the other gender regardless of their preference for T or F. In practice, heterosexuals who are counter-stereotypic on the T/F dimension tend to demand stereotypic behavior from the other gender but tend to not accept that the other gender demands stereotypic behavior from them. Note the relevance of this statement - this is a tendency, a generalization, and not a rule. Many people, also on this forum, do not behave this way.

    But there generally is a problem of "double standards". Some Thinking women might want a man that is independent, confident and succesful. But they may feel disappointed that many men want someone that displays stereotypically feminine characteristics. Some Thinking women may say: "Can't they accept a woman that is independent, logical, and stands up to them?". To which I want to reply: "Can't you accept a man that is sensitive, empathic, and diplomatic?". This comment is valid for Feeling men in the other way round of course. Basically, they are complaining about a behavior (demanding stereotypic tendencies) which they themselves exhibit.

    I don't think a double T or double F relationship would make for a good pair. Personally, I get more out of a relationship with an F than a T. I need someone that balances me, not reinforces my natural preferences. T women just don't manage to evoke the same feelings in me than F women do. With an F woman, I feel we both have seperate strengths and function as a team. With a T woman, we have similar strengths and so there is the potential for competition. However, the last thing I want in a relationship is to start arguing with my partner about the logic of X or Y. And I want to trust my partner to help me with the emotional/relational side of things.

  5. #45
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    ^^ Merry Christmas, Mav! I wanted to give you some green points, but you'd indicated a preference to be in the red, so I didn't sprinkle any on you.

    Ok, back to the topic: the mofo makes sense as usual. Double standards. I'd guess the dating pool popularity poll is skewed towards ENTJ males and ENFP females IRL.

    I think it is why many thinking females learn in time to tamper their thoughts and words and actions, much as I've done, simply. But as was observed, it is probably easier for T females to tamp down something they have, than for F males to gear up the aggression/assertiveness which does not exist much for them?

    Having said that, I do find empathy, diplomacy and compassion (you don't mean sensitivity as boohoo clingwrap, do you?) in a person very attractive. Am likely to find that more attractive vs aggression actually, in a relationship. So probably true to the double F and double T relationships, though I'd think the N/S J/P combi matters a lot as well, if not equally.

    I find aggressive males tiring to be with, actually, they constantly want to be somewhere, do something, win everything, against anyone. Even though you never were competing with them, they somehow see it as you are, and measure themselves by that. But I somehow seem to get these sorts - the image thing works against me here I'd guess

    At the end of the day, I'd like more balance in relationships & life, so probably a thinking F fits better than a pure F or a pure T for me. Can't speak for other T women though.
    Last edited by white; 12-25-2007 at 08:48 AM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Curious, Kiddo. So what does the bushbaby bring to the ENTP? I could imagine myself constantly walking on glass if I were to be with an injured, cynical critter you know, and never quite sure how to read the INFJ. Is this the enigma you mean?

    Right now I have this image of the ENTP in natural state, bubbling with ideas, but not sure to say them or not because the bushbaby could take it as a knife to their metaphorical fragile hearts, and then they twist it over and over by themselves and anything you say after that makes more daggers to them? I'm not sure whom'd be more damaged from that.
    But that is why I love ENTPs. They won't walk on glass for you. They are clever and shrewd. The greatest fear of the INFJ is unauthentic or deceptive people. But the ENTP is purely demonstrative of their intentions and thoughts. There is no wall between the two types. And as such, the kiddy gloves can come off of both players.

    In addition to that, INFJs do the one thing ENTPs often can't. They think things through. That isn't to say that their goal is to shoot down ideas, but to make them better, or to make them doable. An INFJ will invest considerable energy into helping someone realize their ideas and dreams. Being able to help someone achieve their potential is the creed of the INFJ. And ENTPs are potential in its purest form.

  7. #47
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    Curious, Kiddo. So what does the bushbaby bring to the ENTP? I could imagine myself constantly walking on glass if I were to be with an injured, cynical critter you know, and never quite sure how to read the INFJ. Is this the enigma you mean?

    Right now I have this image of the ENTP in natural state, bubbling with ideas, but not sure to say them or not because the bushbaby could take it as a knife to their metaphorical fragile hearts, and then they twist it over and over by themselves and anything you say after that makes more daggers to them? I'm not sure whom'd be more damaged from that.
    why do you think INFJs are so fragile? i'm probably the 2nd least fragile person i know, next to my other male-INFJ friend.

    my ex, the ENTP, puts on a strong/impenetrable face in public. and she even puts on a strong face to herself. but she's waaaaaay fragile -- and it's even worse, because she doesn't even know when she's hurt. it usually takes a few hours before she even realizes she's being too emotional.

    i'd say INFJ fragility is conscious, therefore easier to control.

    but yeah, the INFJ does have to be very accepting of the ENTP's ideas. i don't think that's too hard, though. ENTPs are awesome. they're like us INFJs, except much more likely to say their intuitions out loud.

    ENTP -> Ne, Ti, Fe
    INFJ -> Ni, Fe, Ti

    very similar function breakdown, if you think about it.

    My friends thought so till I led everyone on a 21km hike and climb in the Laotian wilderness when I decided on a whim that 7km was walkable, but neglected to factor in the return trip, certain detours that I just had to explore, the 60 degree incline at certain sections and the fact that we were walking in slippers. I think the only reason I'm still around now is because they were too exhausted to lift a finger against me that night. I was banished to sleep on the floor though.

    ENTPs can be hazardous to the health actually.
    the INFJ just has to be assertive. and that's the good thing about the ENTP/INFJ combo. INFJs use their Ni to "know" what the results of an ENTP's idea are going to be. and ENTPs get the INFJs off their lazy asses, wanting to test out some Ne idea they have.

  8. #48
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    IMO, INFJs can calibrate fairly well to the person they are interacting with. IOW, two people could say the same thing to me and I might be bothered by one person saying it and not the other because I know the communication styles of the person speaking.

    My INTJ daughter can say things to me without upsetting me that would really bother me a lot if someone else said them. I know how she is and I know that she is just saying how she sees things. It's not meant to be insulting and it's nothing personal. It's just how she is. People that are normally more . . . tactful? and they say some of the stuff she does, I'd be up in arms, because they meant it.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    INFJs use their Ni to "know" what the results of an ENTP's idea are going to be. and ENTPs get the INFJs off their lazy asses, wanting to test out some Ne idea they have.
    Very well said.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    The problem is that more heterosexual women, whether Thinking or Feeling tend to be attracted to Thinking rather than Feeling men.
    Eeeh, no way Jose Oh sure, I had my period when I wanted my very own Mr Spock, but I was like, 8 to 12 years old or something After that, it's been a Feeling man all the way.

    I don't think a double T or double F relationship would make for a good pair.
    I'm an INFJ happily and productively married to an ENFJ so there

    Personally, I get more out of a relationship with an F than a T. I need someone that balances me, not reinforces my natural preferences.
    Heh, where you see "balance" I see "conflict", and where you see "reinforces my natural preferences" I see "naturally understands me"

    And an ENxP? I'd go stark mad in half a day with all that Ne

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