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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Easy, astrologers and MBTI mavens speak in exactly the same way - they speak with complete confidence about which they have no empirical evidence.

    This is called, "a confidence trick".
    Evidence, please.


  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Easy, astrologers and MBTI mavens speak in exactly the same way - they speak with complete confidence about which they have no empirical evidence.

    This is called, "a confidence trick".
    Oh yeah, and I like your use of the word "mavens". You make them sound like the Dementors from Harry Potter.

  3. #63
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Enlightenment is the journey for individuals, not a path to follow false prophets like the Pied Piper.

    The Pied Piper weaves his metaphoric tune, repetitively, repetitively, repetitively, repetitively.

    Follow me and you too will understand the beauty of Enlightenment.

    So some rats follow if only to stop the incessant tune.

    Down, down, down into the cold, dark, murky depths past sanity.

  4. #64

    Default mbti-user, deep down, do you trust mbti?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Enlightenment is the journey for individuals, not a path to follow false prophets like the Pied Piper.

    The Pied Piper weaves his metaphoric tune, repetitively, repetitively, repetitively, repetitively.

    Follow me and you too will understand the beauty of Enlightenment.

    So some rats follow if only to stop the incessant tune.

    Down, down, down into the cold, dark, murky depths past sanity.
    victor is a reporter. ideas enlighten, ideas offend.

    mbti is a technique. in art, if the technique becomes greater than the heart, then that person is not much of an artist anymore. in mbti, if the technique becomes greater than the heart, then that person is not much of a human anymore.

  5. #65
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Jung seemed to say that being as extreme as I tested was a pathology, so I threw Jung to the side and went back to books like, "Gifts Differing", "life types" or even "please understand me", and others.

    Describe an experiment that you would like done.

    For me, correlations are enough. Anecdotes are enough. Another person shares something which I identify with, and this is deep and meaningful to me.

    Such experiments that you want may not work with the MBTI. For example, you could never tell the actor from the core person. I currently do a job which is atypical for my type, but I do in a way that is characteristic of my type. Reading about my type, and it's failings, really helps me to do my work. Understand me helps in not letting my perfectionism destroy me, and it helps me interact with other people.

    The MBTI helped me. People were always trying to make me more normal like them. Normal people have a TV. Normal people play group sports. Normal people keep a clean desk. Wellllllll, if you force someone to be like everyone else, it's like carving them or pounding them into your own mold. Along comes the MBTI, and I realize many things are more normal for me. I still don't quite fit the mold or a single mold, but the MBTI was a lot better than the junk they were trying to force me to believe was normal and expected.

    What do you believe? Everyone is the same? Everyone is equally introverted and extroverted? After we bump out of the cloning factory we all have the same hierarchy of functions? PROVE THAT.

    I knew my "personality" was more rare, and taking the MBTI was sort of a watershed event. My life was spent listening to an authoritarian father yell, "You know what your problems are!???" Or he might say, "Normal people don't do that sort of thing!!!!" Well, I don't really believe his ideas about love, marriage, gays, and black people come from the enlightenment either, but you sound like you are on his side. He believes it's statistically proven that 25% of blacks have IQ less than 80, or something.

    I may not know what you are talking about. Also, I may believe you can't measure the MBTI in the sense that there is the "actor", and the "internal observer" and you have to trust the internal person is not "lying." However, I took some statistics classes in school. Tell me how you'd set up your experiment.

    But regardless, it probably will not change my view that the MBTI has some validity which says that people are different, and that they all have preferences, and the differences move and that it's a spectrum. And even if they...by some miracle...have the same values in the spectrum, the two people may be completely different in many areas. They might like different flavored ice cream. One may be successful at relationships, and the other not. They might hate each other or like each other. Yet, they'll probably have some similarities as well.

    I don't agree with astrology in the paper. It's drivel.

    But people are different. My sister is more organized and has all her notes in the same kinds of binders all organized. Mine are not. People are different. My sister likes to talk to a lot of people (extroverted). I do not. My father has little tact; he is definitely a strong T.

    People are not the same! The MBTI measures something, or it's meaningful to me.

    Now, I like feng shui and stuff too, but it's more of an amusement. So I was born in the year of the pig, so I have a statue of a meditating pig, but it doesn't matter that much. Feng shui means more because of it's interior design aspects, but it's astrology ideas are silly.

    The MBTI is not Astrology. It's not random or birth year or some kind of random things. It tests what I believe I prefer. Maybe there is a better test, but the MBTI is not astrological. The stars are not involved and the difference between function hierarchies correspond to something.

    Again, what would convince you?

    Secondly, why do you post on a forum about MBTI?

    Also, what about your personal story made you believe as you do? Remember anecdotal evidence carries more weight with me than 500 multi-nested ANOVAS or whatever statistical process you want to set up.

  6. #66
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    ah come on....how serious can u take the MBTI ??

    It's got some truth in it...but also some BS...all those nice words about everyone...making the concept look more appealing because it makes people feel special. That's BS.

    A concept is a concept, it shouldn't be made attractive. It's wrong.

  7. #67
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guesswho View Post
    ah come on....how serious can u take the MBTI ??

    It's got some truth in it...but also some BS...all those nice words about everyone...making the concept look more appealing because it makes people feel special. That's BS.

    A concept is a concept, it shouldn't be made attractive. It's wrong.


    This reads like, "It's wrong! So there! Take that!"

    Good argument!

    Edit: I apologize. But really I felt like you were patronizing me and sweeping my point of view under the rug.

    I've taken a few psychology courses. I guess, in my fathers terms, "Psychology is a crock of shit." However, I believe it has validity. I've taken the MMPI and the MBTI multiple times, and it seems that MBTI is the most meaningful to me. I have had two books on personality disorders, one is a text book. One is a guide on "cognitive therapy of personality disorders."

    If someone wants to say the MBTI is incomplete or a joke or totally crap:

    (1.) What are you doing here?

    (2.) What theories of personality do you like, if any?

    To those of you who say that MBTI is incomplete or not comprehensive or has flaws:

    (1.) I generally agree with you, but still find value in a partial theory. It is an oasis problem, like many things.

    (2.) What personality theory appeals to you, if any?

    It seems like the MBTI naysayers in this thread are saying that all people are the same. We all use the same functions. Nobody uses the certain functions more than others by preference or regular habit.

    I completely disagree with this. This is not true for me. Some people reject MBTI stereotypes, and so do I, but I reject that we are all the same too. Further, I reject that we are anti-Enlightenment if we believe in MBTI. I reject your whole parade of straw-men. Try something else. Tell me your experimental design.
    Last edited by BAJ; 03-06-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  8. #68
    Senior Member BAJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lien View Post
    victor is a reporter. ideas enlighten, ideas offend.

    mbti is a technique. in art, if the technique becomes greater than the heart, then that person is not much of an artist anymore. in mbti, if the technique becomes greater than the heart, then that person is not much of a human anymore.
    I guess I agree with this, though.

  9. #69
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lien View Post
    victor is a reporter. ideas enlighten, ideas offend.

    mbti is a technique. in art, if the technique becomes greater than the heart, then that person is not much of an artist anymore. in mbti, if the technique becomes greater than the heart, then that person is not much of a human anymore.
    The Pied Piper, flute out, repetitively negates knowledge.

    If he is a reporter, personal values have no place in reporting knowledge. A reporter reports knowledge then allows the reader to draw their own enlightenment from his knowledge and all other available knowledge.

    Perhaps the Pied Piper is a blogger, armed with vorpil blade, snicker snackering other blogs so his blog is the only one left to read opinion from.

    When there is only one blog to read, that will be a sad day indeed for opinion consumption. Many will starve and die, enlightened only by a very dim light.

    MBTI has nothing to do with the heart and heart has nothing to do with MBTI. Heart pumps blood. Head drives our humanity, including our ability to love.

  10. #70
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    Dear BAJ,

    You are INFP. You can remove that "x" now.

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