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  1. #1
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Difference Between the ESTJ and the ENTJ

    I asked this question on EIDB last year, but I didn't feel like it was answered adequately enough.

    I want to differentiate between the ENTJ and the ESTJ. I'm pretty certain that I'm an ExTJ, but I want to know if I have a preference for Intuition or Sensing.

    At the moment, I've been getting ESTJ, but the descriptions outline the ESTJ to be focused on things which I'm not that focused on, like helping out and guarding the constitution etc. Also, apparently ESTJs focus on the present, and this is a major part of the ESTJ, but I focus on the future a lot.

  2. #2
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I asked this question on EIDB last year, but I didn't feel like it was answered adequately enough.

    I want to differentiate between the ENTJ and the ESTJ. I'm pretty certain that I'm an ExTJ, but I want to know if I have a preference for Intuition or Sensing.

    At the moment, I've been getting ESTJ, but the descriptions outline the ESTJ to be focused on things which I'm not that focused on, like helping out and guarding the constitution etc. Also, apparently ESTJs focus on the present, and this is a major part of the ESTJ, but I focus on the future a lot.
    The ESTJ's I have met are more living this day than ENTJ's. ESTJ's are down to earth, practical organizers and doers. They do not have interest in the high flying stuff like ENTJ's. I would say ENTJ's are more visionaries of the future even if they are as good in organizing as ESTJ's. I would say ENTJ's are more interested in theories than ESTJ's who might be more interested in arranging day-to-day activities.

  3. #3
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    ENTJ's are NT's. They value knowledge and competence above all. They are abstract thinkers. They have an eye for the long term and possibilities. ENTJ's hate being controlled and are probably only comfortable leading. They disregard many social norms and traditions as logically irrelevant. They are initiators and entrepreneurs that are likely to start groups.

    ESTJ's are SJ's. They value practicality and order above all. They are concrete thinkers. They have an eye for the short term and logistics. ESTJ's feel happy being harmoniously in the system - they are at ease both following and leading. They tend to follow social norms and traditions. They are joiners and likely to be active in several groups.

    ENTJ's are nerdy-ish and less grounded in physical reality than ESTJ's. They can even be head in the clouds if you catch them during their N-ish moments. ENTJ's like to dream up projects and plans for the future. ESTJ's are more grounded in physical reality and will probably not be found daydreaming as ENTJ's would. They're probably more concerned about getting things done first.

  4. #4
    ~dangerous curves ahead~
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I asked this question on EIDB last year, but I didn't feel like it was answered adequately enough.

    I want to differentiate between the ENTJ and the ESTJ. I'm pretty certain that I'm an ExTJ, but I want to know if I have a preference for Intuition or Sensing.

    At the moment, I've been getting ESTJ, but the descriptions outline the ESTJ to be focused on things which I'm not that focused on, like helping out and guarding the constitution etc. Also, apparently ESTJs focus on the present, and this is a major part of the ESTJ, but I focus on the future a lot.
    Both personalities tend to stand out in a group. At their most negative, lesser developed forms, they can be oblivious to how others perceive them and ride roughshod over others. This is usually done unknowingly by the ESTJ, unbotheredly by the ENTJ .

    How I tell is by this:

    An ENTJ usually seeks to order things and people to how they envision it can be.. Old orders do not matter if they do not serve the ENTJ (the disregard Maverick speaks of). If you speak with one, the passion is to shape a future.

    An ESTJ seeks to order things to a pre-existing system - it need not be of their own vision, but it is a system they value. The passion is for order, stability/security.

    An ENTJ has a more diabolical sense of humour too. <- and they'd find this a compliment. The ESTJ would not likely to regard this as complimentary.

  5. #5
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    A hypothetical example:

    While the ESTJs are busy managing a workplace, or diligently performing the duties a workplace requires, so that the workplace keeps offering its services, the ENTJs at the same time think about how that workplace itself could be improved so that it, for example, offers more service in less amount of time. The focus is on the future improvement of this system, rather than the everyday management of the existing scheme, and relatively micro-elements such as the amount of workers, the duties of these workers, or the competence of a few individual workers/administrators regarding these duties, or even the services the company offers, are considered on the basis of how they contribute to the future vision - do they have a place in the new, improved system? What needs change?
    Not really.

  6. #6
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    So if my life plans revolve around becoming - first and foremost - a barrister, then perhaps a solicitor or a businessman if I don't make it to the bar, and my life plan is to become rich in order to secure enough money to raise a family in comfortable, even wealthy, circumstances, what does this imply? S or N?

    Also, during my free time, I sometimes like to delve into fantasy world, or think about where I will be in twenty years time (this is mainly to do with where I'll be living, because my environment is very important to me). I think about England, and country houses and that kind of thing. I've got a million different worlds that I visit during sleeping hours, and ponder for a few minutes a day when I'm awake. I've had many ideas about what I want to do in life, and it's only recently, in the last few months, that I've decided I want to do something for myself and not for the world; something for myself and my future family.

    This sounds N, but then here is what's S about me. I'm concrete and practical in daily life, and I have disregard for a lot of ideas that I think won't work or don't really care about or which aren't relevant.

  7. #7
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    I don't have anything concrete to add. Only a little story.

    I've been good friends with someone for about 6 years. She tested out as ENTJ several yrs ago, but over time I've really gotten to see the emotional/sensitive side....so consequently, I had decided she must be more ENfJ. You know, silly me..we've grown close over time, she went through some difficult situations where she was pure emotion, I consequently thought she couldn't be a T...sigh...

    She's been back in town for a few days, and yesterday some mbti stuff came up, as she was talking about her job, and how with her career path and the types of places she has worked, they've required all the employees to take the formal mbti test. She said she's always come out ENTJ - all 4 times she's taken it, and she also added that she's 'very J', that her T is strong (ha!!! I hereby withdraw myself from ever typing a person again!!! I'm horrible at it!), and her N is the weakest -- she says her N and S are very close. She also said her E isn't terribly extreme either. So my good friend is actually more of an EnTJ! :-) (or maybe an enTJ?) It probably explains why she didn't remind me of the other two ENTJ women I know who seem much more textbook ENTJ.

    Just a little story. It's possible your S and N are fairly balanced.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    From what I have been able to decipher lately is that ESTJs have little in common with ENTJ or any other In Charge type. In fact, ESTJs from what I have read are more middle management types than leaders and smirk at those who find it necessary to always lead. ENTJ and ESTP can appear very similar.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    From what I have been able to decipher lately is that ESTJs have little in common with ENTJ or any other In Charge type. In fact, ESTJs from what I have read are more middle management types than leaders and smirk at those who find it necessary to always lead. ENTJ and ESTP can appear very similar.
    That's true.

    I've always resonated much more with ESTP's than with ESTJ's. My best friend is an ESTP and we can be deceptively similar.

    Coming to think of it, among my really close friends there are 4 ESTP's.

  10. #10
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    I don't have anything concrete to add. Only a little story.

    I've been good friends with someone for about 6 years. She tested out as ENTJ several yrs ago, but over time I've really gotten to see the emotional/sensitive side....so consequently, I had decided she must be more ENfJ. You know, silly me..we've grown close over time, she went through some difficult situations where she was pure emotion, I consequently thought she couldn't be a T...sigh...

    She's been back in town for a few days, and yesterday some mbti stuff came up, as she was talking about her job, and how with her career path and the types of places she has worked, they've required all the employees to take the formal mbti test. She said she's always come out ENTJ - all 4 times she's taken it, and she also added that she's 'very J', that her T is strong (ha!!! I hereby withdraw myself from ever typing a person again!!! I'm horrible at it!), and her N is the weakest -- she says her N and S are very close. She also said her E isn't terribly extreme either. So my good friend is actually more of an EnTJ! :-) (or maybe an enTJ?) It probably explains why she didn't remind me of the other two ENTJ women I know who seem much more textbook ENTJ.

    Just a little story. It's possible your S and N are fairly balanced.
    Thanks for that. That's helpful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
    That's true.

    I've always resonated much more with ESTP's than with ESTJ's. My best friend is an ESTP and we can be deceptively similar.

    Coming to think of it, among my really close friends there are 4 ESTP's.
    So why do you think you're an ENTJ?

    I'm an SLE (ESTp) in socionics, and apparently a lot of ENTJs and even INTJs feel that SLE is closest to them. Someone once wondered how I coud have Te and Ni as dominant and auxiliary functions respectively in one theory, and Se and Ti in the ego in another. He said surely I must be an LIE (ENTj) in socionics, or an ESTP in MBTT. Well, in MBTT, the concern of power isn't evident in Se, yet in socionics, it's a huge part of it. So the 'commanding' ENTJ would naturally identify with the SLE. On top of this, in socionics, 'messiness' arises out of a lack of Si, which is something intuitives identify with. Cleanliness is a matter of S not J. The difference between an EJ and an EP in socionics is their mental stability. It has nothing to do with how flexible, chaotic or disorganised they are. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable for someone to be an ENTJ in MBTT and an SLE in socionics. An ESTP could well relate more to the SEE (ESFp) in socionics than to the SLE, although I do know of an ESTP and SLE.

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