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  1. #41
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Dr. Quenk's books raises one of the problems that I have with the system overall in it's rigidness in describing types at either their most healthy level or most unhealthy level, with nothing in between. When the enthusiasts find that realistic balance of how people truly are and usually fluctuate between being healthy and unhealthy, then I will take the system more seriously again.
    I do tend to agree with you here, in that an individual is never 'stationary' - it's situational, or a person might adjust over the course of their life, or like you said, bounce from one end to the other, but mostly stay somewhere in the middle....and realistically, most people WILL be in the middle for most of their lives. I think it's hard/impossible to be at 'optimum' health/functionality for anyone, and be able to maintain that. Everyone gets stressed or has negative life experiences that they have to work through. It's being human.

    But I also think even taking the fluctuations into account, one can still reasonably assess what the persons' type is, because in the longterm behavioral patterns do emerge. It's just making those snap judgements based on a single interaction with someone that could be hasty/inaccurate, especially if you're talking to or observing someone who's in ultra stressed-out mode, or someone who's going through a rough patch, and you yourself don't know they are, and just assume that's how they always act.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  2. #42
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    But I also think even taking the fluctuations into account, one can still reasonably assess what the persons' type is, because in the longterm behavioral patterns do emerge. It's just making those snap judgements based on a single interaction with someone that could be hasty/inaccurate, especially if you're talking to or observing someone who's in ultra stressed-out mode, or someone who's going through a rough patch, and you yourself don't know they are, and just assume that's how they always act.
    Oh absolutely. The type never changes, which irks me when I see people asking that question. I think that MBTI would be more doable if the authors did begin to write descriptions that are more middle of the road, which would alleviate the stereotypes. As for typing others, I just see it as presumptuous to believe that we really know anyone. I find it even more ironic that someone preferring introversion themselves would do it since we know better than anyone that what you may be seeing is not the dominant function in use.

  3. #43
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    yes i remember reading about this and appreciate the fact that its a dynamic way of looking at the model. when i brought up alternate ways of looking at the type functions on 16 types.info they were really uninterested in anything but "Model A." and yes i think under stress i become more anti-social, like an istp (from that great ptypes site)

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  4. #44
    Luctor et emergo Ezra's Avatar
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    If you're talking socionically, there is no way you can become your conflictor. You can't suddenly go from valuing Fe and Ni to Fe being your PoLR and Ni being your third function. You can't go from being shit in Si and Te to adept in them. It makes no logical sense.

  5. #45
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    My mother has a book called "In the Grip: Our Hidden Personality" (if anyone has mentioned this before, sorry for the repeat, I don't have the energy to go find it) -- I feel it displays the "shadow" tendencies very clearly (and also shows what attracts and repels certain types). Anyone else read this?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #46
    Senior Member Sandy's Avatar
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    I had to often because of my job, and I don't like being that way... but working as my shadow has helped me overcome some procrastination issues that I sometime face.
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  7. #47
    Free-Rangin' Librarian Jae Rae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    My mother has a book called "In the Grip: Our Hidden Personality" (if anyone has mentioned this before, sorry for the repeat, I don't have the energy to go find it) -- I feel it displays the "shadow" tendencies very clearly (and also shows what attracts and repels certain types). Anyone else read this?
    In the Grip was expanded to Beside Ourselves, which was further expanded to Was That Really Me? I have the last title and I highly recommend it. My local library doesn't have it, but Amazon does.

    Jae Rae

  8. #48
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jae Rae View Post
    In the Grip was expanded to Beside Ourselves, which was further expanded to Was That Really Me? I have the last title and I highly recommend it. My local library doesn't have it, but Amazon does.

    Jae Rae
    Thanks for the tip, Jae, my dear! I'll have to grab it from the lib.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
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    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
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    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  9. #49
    Senior Member DaRick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Oh absolutely. The type never changes, which irks me when I see people asking that question. I think that MBTI would be more doable if the authors did begin to write descriptions that are more middle of the road, which would alleviate the stereotypes. As for typing others, I just see it as presumptuous to believe that we really know anyone. I find it even more ironic that someone preferring introversion themselves would do it since we know better than anyone that what you may be seeing is not the dominant function in use.
    With regards to MBTI, I notice that extraverts tend to stereotype others more than introverts, but certain introverts are also quite presumptuous with regards to people's personality. I also agree about the stereotypes which emerge from the descriptions, which lack ambiguity. For instance, I got annoyed (although I don't show it), when this 'friend' said of the ISTJ description: "Oh, it suits you." Others said it too. It annoys me that they think that I am so simplistic and easy to figure out when they don't really know me well enough to make such sweeping judgements on my characters, when in fact I'm quite the opposite.
    MBTI: INFJ (I: 100% N:58% F: 58% J: 84%)
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    If you're talking socionically, there is no way you can become your conflictor. You can't suddenly go from valuing Fe and Ni to Fe being your PoLR and Ni being your third function. You can't go from being shit in Si and Te to adept in them. It makes no logical sense.
    ok well what if as an enfj with fe primary and ti fourth function that i get very stressed out until ti becomes my prominent focus and i start to be become antisocial.

    i think its possible, because i think its happend to me before and that i did seem like a different person than i am.

    i may have been hardcore 'teaching' someone a lesson and then switched down to resemble more of a healer when they combatted, however i felt like some kind of a switch happend.

    i really can't describe it but i do relate to it.

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