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  1. #1
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Default IP/EJ versus IJ/EP

    Okay this pattern was pointed out to me first by Wildcat and now I've been questioned on the logic behind the pattern and I come to compare types. I could use a little help as this just goes all big picture in my head.

    IP/EJ both have their judging function listed as their primary function.
    IJ/EP both have their perception function listed first.

    Now I know the pattern exists, I'm just not familiar with why it exists or what the precise parallels are between the types.

    Can anyone help me out here?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    IP/EJ both have their judging function listed as their primary function.
    IJ/EP both have their perception function listed first.

    Now I know the pattern exists, I'm just not familiar with why it exists or what the precise parallels are between the types.
    As far as I can tell, the similarity between IP/EJ is that most of the information they receive is filtered through their Judging function... so they mostly find that which is related to what their minds are looking for (although it's less obvious if they're IP's, you can still see that underlying pattern in which observations they point to.)

    EP's and IJ's mostly seem to take in as much information as possible and deal with it. The EP seems to just change as quickly as the new information comes in, while the IJ becomes aware of the information, but still tries to remain stable externally... sometimes, I think this even results me changing my viewpoint so much that I unconsciously change my mind about what I meant by things I've said previously. The difference is that I feel the need to stick to at least part of what I've already said in order to retain my integrity, even if I've already started to doubt myself. It's weird. For an IJ, it can result in being aware of something, but not being able to discuss it properly externally because it doesn't "fit," and spending a lot of time arranging/rearranging things so that it can fit. (Which is different, because EJ's and IP's usually don't seem to choose to ignore/omit anything they become aware of even temporarily, but are actually impaired in their ability to become aware of something that doesn't fit with their judgments in the first place... does that make sense?)

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    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    As far as I can tell, the similarity between IP/EJ is that most of the information they receive is filtered through their Judging function... so they mostly find that which is related to what they're minds are looking for (although it's less obvious if they're IP's, you can still see that underlying pattern in which observations they point to.)

    EP's and IJ's mostly seem to take in as much information as possible and deal with it. The EP seems to just change as quickly as the new information comes in, while the IJ becomes aware of the information, but still tries to remain stable externally... sometimes, I think this even results me changing my viewpoint so much that I unconsciously change my mind about what I meant by things I've said previously. The difference is that I feel the need to stick to at least part of what I've already said in order to retain my integrity, even if I've already started to doubt myself. It's weird. Also, it can result in being aware of something, but not being able to discuss it externally because it doesn't "fit."
    Ah that makes sense with my observations. I always wondered why EPs and EJs seemed so diametrically opposite. It is less noticeable in introverts but I guess it's still true. Hence why it always takes me hours to argue with my INTJ friend. He's always got so many more instances to call upon, unlike me and my intuitional understanding, however I always get the nagging feeling that he's playing off of nonsequitous reasoning, perhaps the whole flood of information versus controlled input selection is what I'm picking up?

    Oh ar and how come you're LN? I'd have placed you as more NG with a leaning on both axis. You been taking that online test or something?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Ah that makes sense with my observations. I always wondered why EPs and EJs seemed so diametrically opposite. It is less noticeable in introverts but I guess it's still true. Hence why it always takes me hours to argue with my INTJ friend. He's always got so many more instances to call upon, unlike me and my intuitional understanding, however I always get the nagging feeling that he's playing off of nonsequitous reasoning, perhaps the whole flood of information versus controlled input selection is what I'm picking up?
    Yes... I've actually felt like a small part of what I was saying was completely ignored and/or construed as something else when I was talking to an IP or EJ (more obvious with the latter than the former)... and sometimes had to rephrase it a few ways to make them conscious of it, only to have it either dismissed as insignificant, or appalling them with an important insight that makes them reassess several of their positions. Also, they both seem prone to saying really vague things that they think convey something specific, but there's really not enough information there to make the connections they're wanting me to make, and I have to ask them to clarify a few times. I think the only reason they "get" one another frequently in these cases is because both their minds apply something to the information before looking at it that puts it in context for them, so even if the information didn't actually contain that processing, it seems to contain it for them.
    Oh ar and how come you're LN? I'd have placed you as more NG with a leaning on both axis. You been taking that online test or something?
    Yes, that's what I got on an online test... you don't think I seem LN? You mean you haven't noticed how much I prefer order?

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Yes... I've actually felt like a small part of what I was saying was completely ignored and construed as something else when I was talking to an IP or EJ (more obvious with the latter than the former)... and sometimes had to rephrase it a few ways to make them conscious of it, only to have it either dismissed as insignificant, or appalling them with an important insight that makes them reassess several of their positions.
    You're not still mad at me, are you?

    Yes, that's what I got on an online test... you don't think I seem LN?
    What's LN? A code from that new MBTI sorter out there? (I don't recall.)

    Anyway, those are some good insights, Ath. I'm still thinking through them.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    You're not still mad at me, are you?
    I was never mad at you. Why did you get that impression?


    What's LN? A code from that new MBTI sorter out there? (I don't recall.)
    Lawful Neutral. Abbreviation.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I was never mad at you. Why did you get that impression?
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    I didn't, goof... I was just made up something that played off your post.

    Lawful Neutral. Abbreviation.


    Yes. NG -- that's me.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    :yim_rolling_on_the_

    I didn't, goof... I was just made up something that played off your post.
    How did it play off my post? I didn't get it... I probably have a tendency to take things literally without qualifiers indicating the contrary. Sorry.




    Yes. NG -- that's me.
    Well, of course... you want to see yourself as perfect and good. I'm not surprised.

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    How did it play off my post? I didn't get it... I probably have a tendency to take things literally without qualifiers indicating the contrary. Sorry.


    Well, of course... you want to see yourself as adaptable perfect and good. I'm not surprised.
    Fixed!

    Yes, and you like things to fit neatly together, with ideal consistency.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Yes... I've actually felt like a small part of what I was saying was completely ignored and/or construed as something else when I was talking to an IP or EJ (more obvious with the latter than the former)... and sometimes had to rephrase it a few ways to make them conscious of it, only to have it either dismissed as insignificant, or appalling them with an important insight that makes them reassess several of their positions. Also, they both seem prone to saying really vague things that they think convey something specific, but there's really not enough information there to make the connections they're wanting me to make, and I have to ask them to clarify a few times. I think the only reason they "get" one another frequently in these cases is because both their minds apply something to the information before looking at it that puts it in context for them, so even if the information didn't actually contain that processing, it seems to contain it for them.
    That actually makes a lot of sense. I never thought of it that way. I'd just get a going over from an EP or an IJ and think "How did that go wrong?". Until you linked it to this I'd singularly failed to see that.

    Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    Yes, that's what I got on an online test... you don't think I seem LN? You mean you haven't noticed how much I prefer order?
    Well perhaps LG but not absolute law, you're too clever to fall for that trap. Definitely more G than N though. I've never seen you as rules for rules sake or did I miss that clause in our communications contract?

    Oh and Jennifer, shame on you for not knowing standard D&D notation. -10 geek points
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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