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  1. #21
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You don't see type preferences play out in interactions ALL THE DAMN TIME? To the point of people turning themselves into stereotypes--all the damn time?

    Like, there's an impressive amount of type-based prejudice against typology, in my humble opinion. People emphasizing their F side dislike the apparent depersonalization, people emphasizing non-judgmentalism dislike the apparent fixity of the rules, people looking for conceptual adequacy dislike the seeming sui generis-ness of it all... (And me, I like it because it appears to work... lo and behold, type preferences playing out again, people seeking effective, efficient answers....)

    But ultimately, do you have anything other than personal preferences as dictated by your cognitive preferences against the system?

    Or does the disagreement all come from somewhere else?

    Hahah, +1,000,000!

    Brilliant post. I absolutely do see the type interactions play out all the time, and people have no idea.

    Of course, when I point it out, people tell me type can't run that deep--but it does. It's visible everywhere in almost everything people do. The fact that you [generic you here, not Kalach] can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  2. #22
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Everyone is a unique individual and categorizable at the same time, and that's not a contradiction.
    Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up.

    We obviously have our quirks, but to the OP, much of what we might deem utterly unique is really being played out by millions or hundreds of millions around the world. Like, when I realized a while back that my thoughts and beliefs have been played out countless times throughout history, well, that was a little sobering. I'm really not THAT special when it comes to a lot of that. But, ALL aspects of myself and my interests, and life experiences, taken in their entirety? Well, there's only one me when it comes to that.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  3. #23
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up.

    We obviously have our quirks, but to the OP, much of what we might deem utterly unique is really being played out by millions or hundreds of millions around the world.
    Somebody tell that to Fi!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #24
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I think if there is such a thing as a determinate and discoverable function order, then individuality is as easy as recognising and addressing your built in (cognitive) strengths and weaknesses, and associating them with your own history and circumstance. It expands your mind to encompass (without having to perform) the functions and requirements of other people.

    Naturally then it would seem important to ask, is there a determinate and discoverable function order?

    I don't have much choice, I'm going to say there is.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

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  5. #25
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Several posts moved to off-topic posts. There's no need to bring what happened in another thread into this one and attempt to bait the OP into engaging again. This is a warning.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
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  6. #26
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    So a personality is structured, what of it? Is it better to have unstructured personalities? Is that even a concept, a personality without structure? Let's assume for the moment that you've all had your perspectives and priorities satisfied so that we don't have to quibble over investigative methodology--as in we don't have to argue over whether we should be defining words, or letting people be people, or considering every possibility before we settle, etc--and in that case, how hard is it to accept that personalities are structured and that substantial portions of our conscious concerns arrive not through choice, but via priorities set up to service prior personality structure. And not only that, but choice, real serious choice, doesn't exist if prior personality structure doesn't exist. That is, your personality type is logically, metaphysically, and practically prior to your conscious rule over the world. Without a personality type, you wouldn't have a personality.

    Or would you?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  7. #27
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You don't see type preferences play out in interactions ALL THE DAMN TIME? To the point of people turning themselves into stereotypes--all the damn time?

    Like, there's an impressive amount of type-based prejudice against typology, in my humble opinion. People emphasizing their F side dislike the apparent depersonalization, people emphasizing non-judgmentalism dislike the apparent fixity of the rules, people looking for conceptual adequacy dislike the seeming sui generis-ness of it all... (And me, I like it because it appears to work... lo and behold, type preferences playing out again, people seeking effective, efficient answers....)

    But ultimately, do you have anything other than personal preferences as dictated by your cognitive preferences against the system?

    Or does the disagreement all come from somewhere else?
    Its the ye olde structuralism vs post-structuralism debate being played out yet again. Its nothing new. To me, categorisation and generalisations are essential for us to analyse and understand the world and aren't a major threat to individuality.

    And just remember, you're unique just like everybody else...

  8. #28
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    ^ essential, but not descriptive?


    So anyway, functions... are they real? Do they and their ordering determine personality?

    Well, yeah. So, who sees reality for what it is?

    Now I don't know if this is true, but I've been assuming it's possible to if not effectually see through the eyes of another, then at least know that others have different eyes. (And when I say "eyes" I mean minds, obviously.) This hardly seems a novel idea, but add to it personal demands--the requirements your personality places on you and therefore the demands you place on others--and what arrives?

    Is it possible to meaningfully escape your own perspective?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  9. #29
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    ^ essential, but not descriptive?


    So anyway, functions... are they real? Do they and their ordering determine personality?

    Well, yeah. So, who sees reality for what it is?

    Now I don't know if this is true, but I've been assuming it's possible to if not effectually see through the eyes of another, then at least know that others have different eyes. (And when I say "eyes" I mean minds, obviously.) This hardly seems a novel idea, but add to it personal demands--the requirements your personality places on you and therefore the demands you place on others--and what arrives?

    Is it possible to meaningfully escape your own perspective?
    It would be nice to think a person can reach a degree of true objectivity but I doubt if its possible. There are limitations on everyone in their ability to assume the perspective of another. Even in an attempt to see through the eyes of another, you view will be coloured if not distorted by your personal bias - ie what matters to you, how you would want to be treated etc

  10. #30
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    I have the impression that it's more than that. It seems to me that type actively blinds one to other perspectives. It would have to if dichotomies and orientations were real. The consciousness would actively lean far further one way than another, in effect shunning the other side of the orientation and dichotomy. What's more, the existence of a determinate function order would play out as actively moving ourselves to where dominant/auxiliary priorities win.

    Priorities compete, in other words. Yet, personality won't exist without this competition. Or will it?

    And to some large degree all of this is prior to personal choice. It comes before individuality.

    Or does it?
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

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