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View Poll Results: Which group has more difficulty as it relates to gender norms, life, and society?

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  • Male NFs

    52 59.77%
  • Female NTs

    35 40.23%
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  1. #61
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    I'll go with NFs males. People's expectations of 'men' to be 'men' are overrated.

    I mean if a woman dresses in men clothes, then it is okay. But if a man dresses in women clothes, it's not.

    Society still holds this view where men and women aren't equal. I myself might be one. (Or I might be an SP, which I feel like more).

  2. #62
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    Of course NT females have it harder, because being female is an immediate disadvantage even in some of the fairest countries, especially since NTs may gravitate more towards those areas with the larger disadvantages. Just in relation to type, I think male NFs have it harder, because they are generally seen as worthless and a waste of space, the exceptions rare. They have to really twist themselves in order to fit in.

    For STs and SFs its a very different story.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    43.5% of men are abandoned by the world?
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  4. #64
    Senior Member Ming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    Of course NT females have it harder, because being female is an immediate disadvantage even in some of the fairest countries, especially since NTs may gravitate more towards those areas with the larger disadvantages. Just in relation to type, I think male NFs have it harder, because they are generally seen as worthless and a waste of space, the exceptions rare. They have to really twist themselves in order to fit in.

    For STs and SFs its a very different story.
    Why is that?

  5. #65
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    the current generation is better able to bridge the gap. however its still a very traditional based society that is, while favourable to the male hierarchy tends to leave the NF male, more so INF male, susceptible to a bigger loss than the female NT in terms of attitude and ability to deal with life. also the rational and the emotional aspects mayn't be as adequate in what constitutes value checklists that are being constantly appraised in a subconscious manner mirroring societies expectations in what should be the right context in which the female and male are meant to exist. the roles are still very much biased towards certain models than others and limited beliefs abound, tough to say

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ming View Post
    Why is that?
    Because the combination of N and F make for a person much further away from what is valued in men typically. One example would be daydreaming and fantasising as a kid, basing life around subjective states and such, being very abstract and subjective in language, thought and practice. In some cultures it was or is still valued, even in men, but rarely in western cultures. SFs are not nearly as removed from what is valued. Some, like ISFPs, can fit right into certain male stereotypes.

    ST, especially STJ traits, are highly valued in men and women alike, if in different ways. NT traits are more respected in males, but it's equalising slowly.

    That's not to say NF men are screwed. Especially those with Fi, as they are usually very good at changing themselves and adapting to these circumstances. It just puts them through more trials.

  7. #67
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    I'll say NF males. Subverting gender expectations seems easier for women.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Subverting gender expectations seems easier for women.
    That's only because of this:
    Quote Originally Posted by erm View Post
    being female is an immediate disadvantage even in some of the fairest countries
    The fact is, it's easier to "fake it till you make it" with type than gender.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    But it's more likely for a male to be a F than it is for a female to be a T according to stats, is it really that unacceptable?

    T
    Males 56.5%
    Females 24.5%
    Total 40.2%

    F
    Males: 43.5%
    Females: 75.5%
    Total: 59.8%

    source
    Interesting. I always thought it was around 60/40 for both sexes. This explains why I meet so many more F men than T women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
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  9. #69
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    43.5% of men are abandoned by the world?

    The stats have males thinkers at 56.5% and male feelers at 43.5%, doesn't seem like much of a minority, especially when you compare it to female thinkers/feelers that are closer to 75/25.
    Is there some sort of self-selecting bias going on here though? Do you think male feelers (and maybe just feelers in general) might be more likely to take the test in the first place?
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  10. #70
    Diabolical Kasper's Avatar
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    Morgan, the 60/40 figures are from an older study in 1964 by Keirsey and Bates.

    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Is there some sort of self-selecting bias going on here though? Do you think male feelers (and maybe just feelers in general) might be more likely to take the test in the first place?
    There are different stats out there that have different percentages, the ones I linked on are the ones that I believe are most accurate.

    About the data:

    MBTI™ Statistics '98
    The figures below are from a random sampling of 3009 people culled from a total pool of 16,000 using the 1998 MBTI™ Form M. The individuals whose form results were used in this random sampling were not provided with the data to verify or question their accuracy. But these numbers do provide a working base on which to build further understanding and development of the model as extraplated to larger populations.

    At Toronto's 1998 Ontario Association for the Application of Personality Type Conference, "Growing with Type," Danielle Poirier gave an excellent presentation on the then-new MBTI™ Form M and manual, for those who may be interested in researching more background information for these figures. These MBTI™ statistics are from the psych-type list, circa 1998.

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