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  1. #1
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Default Extraversion Vs. Intraversion

    May have spelt each of those wrong.

    Anyway, I have quite a few questions on this topic and have done some interesting reading on it just lately, most interestingly, and I wish I had the reference here but I do not, that neither traits objectively exist and that adaptive, healthy, adjusted individuals will deploy thinking and behaviour associated with either as it suits them to provide stimulation or de-stimulation. I'm not convinced on that one and a lot of authors dont appear to be either.

    Do you think that either is objectively valued and promoted rather than the other? Is society conditioning people to be either more introverted or more extroverted and why?

    Lately I think there's been a lot of Intraversion publishing, at least these books are being offered to reviewers in the Amazon Vine programme for review a few months in a row, but that publishing could be a canny ploy to a captive market if there are a lot of people mistaking social anxiety or whatever for a personality trait.

    On the other hand I've never seen a book dedicated to overcoming the problems experienced or anticipated and associated with extroversion, so its clearly not considered that debilitating.

    What do you think accounts for the popular understanding or recognition of extroversion and introversion as traits as opposed to other cognitive functions, intuition, sensing, thinking, feeling, percepting?

  2. #2
    Glycerine
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    Extroversion is definitely more valued in American society.

  3. #3
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    ^

    Individuality is frowned upon. It reminds of Huxley's "Brave New World".

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    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Anyway, I have quite a few questions on this topic and have done some interesting reading on it just lately, most interestingly, and I wish I had the reference here but I do not, that neither traits objectively exist and that adaptive, healthy, adjusted individuals will deploy thinking and behaviour associated with either as it suits them to provide stimulation or de-stimulation. I'm not convinced on that one and a lot of authors dont appear to be either.
    I'm not convinced of it either. You can look at two young children of the very same family (both living in relatively safe environments - meaning empty of any severe abuse) and those two siblings can very well show signs of different preferences - one for introversion, the other for extroversion. I can think of one very good example right off the bat. I know a little girl who is EXTREMELY introverted. If a stranger talks to her, she will turn her back, bite her lip, and stay silent with a slight, shy grin. I can relate. A lot of what I've read (and it rings true of myself) is that things like this are "shields" that introverts learn to use to keep all the social stimuli at bay. We take in so much (all the little nuances of the environment), that it becomes stressful - that's why we need to be alone to recharge - so we can tune all that stuff out, we don't have to deal with it all. Ask any INxx. That stuff wears you out after a while. Anyways, this girls 2 siblings are non-stop, full of energy, always talking, always playing, always engaging.

    Do you think that either is objectively valued and promoted rather than the other? Is society conditioning people to be either more introverted or more extroverted and why?
    The U.S. is most definitely an extrovert-friendly society. There are a few introvert-friendly societies in the world, but this isn't one of them. In the case of this little girl, she's simply learning how to cope with society the best she knows how. It might be overwhelming for her to engage in conversation with someone who she doesn't know at all - and maybe she's very "worn out" from being at school all day as well. I used to come home and close my bedroom door for the night - only coming out for dinner. I also used to get sick ALL THE TIME as a kid. I would play all weekend, then go to school all week and be completely exhausted mentally. My body would get physically sick - influenza, earaches, stomach aches, etc. There are books that talk about this - the mental overload begins to affect physiology. As an adult, I monitor this. When I need to recharge, I recharge. And I don't get sick anymore. Hardly ever. But, when people do this (close the door for hours, refuse to go out, turn your back instead of being outgoing) adults think that "something is wrong". Or in the case of introverted adults, when we don't want to go "have dinner and a drink" with "the boys from work" on a Friday night, we're seen as strange. "Why wouldn't you want to go", they ask, "it will be fun!"

    Fun for who? That sounds like more work to me. I want to go home and relax and get my bearings back.

    Lately I think there's been a lot of Intraversion publishing, at least these books are being offered to reviewers in the Amazon Vine programme for review a few months in a row, but that publishing could be a canny ploy to a captive market if there are a lot of people mistaking social anxiety or whatever for a personality trait.
    Not sure what you mean here. I have social anxiety. It's real. While I absolutely refuse to wallow in it or to allow it to be my "excuse" (or to let it keep me from doing what I want to do in life), it's something that certainly exists. Those who have it, know it (or know that something about them is different). There is a lot of newly published material out there on introversion. And 75% of it has been very informative and useful to me, and I'm sure to many other introverts as well.


    On the other hand I've never seen a book dedicated to overcoming the problems experienced or anticipated and associated with extroversion, so its clearly not considered that debilitating.
    1. It's not really seen as a problem by extroverts, because it is rewarded/looked highly upon. No need to write a book on the shortcomings of extroversion if it's a great trait to have and you're well liked if you have it. But, I will say this: the books on introversion touch on this very topic. They explain the "good side" of introversion - which also sheds light on the "bad side" of extreme extroversion. Introversion allows one to know the self. It's reflective, it thinks things through. It takes time to de-stress, to relax, to rest.

    Just like introverts can fall into the trap of thinking that they don't need to be social (and it feels so natrural - we have to fight that tendency), extroverts feel very natural to just keep engaging with people all the time. To never be alone. They need to take time out, relax, get rest for the body and the mind. Just chill baby!

    Going back to the "dinner and a drink" on Friday night example, this is where we see the difference in introverts and extroverts. After working all week, the introvert is done. He wants to be alone, chill out, relax, and rest - largely by himself - no conversation, no people. We just did all of that all week - we can't keep it up all day, every day, nor would we want to.

    The extrovert wants to go out on Friday night, and then go visit family on Saturday, and then invite people over for a BBQ on Sunday, before going back to work on Monday. That's just WAY too much for most introverts.
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  5. #5
    A passer by yvonne's Avatar
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    i think extraverts are better understood. everyone likes an engaging person, who is easy to get to know and who is in touch with their surroundings. an extravert can get a job easily, because they know how to act with people. it's natural for them.

    i have found that introverts are often perceived as incompetent, or they're perceived as "annoyed", or are perceived to be having some other negative emotion just because they need to not engage so much. i've found that this is hard and it's hard to avoid misunderstandings at times. just because i am quiet doesn't mean i think ill of you... and just because i need time alone doesn't mean i don't enjoy people.

    so talk to me. i might be shy/ awkward (at first... ), but please don't think i am dumb, resentful, or pitiful because of that... i try to think so, as well.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    some friends of mine were commenting on this other guy we knew the other night. and then one said "he's the life of party type.. everything people wish they were". i almost had to roll my eyes at that one. it's corny. but yeah, i think most people value that sort of thing. i don't. i feel strange, just a little outside myself when i am a little more lively (it happens). i prefer being the mysterious guy in the corner.

  7. #7
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    May have spelt each of those wrong.

    Anyway, I have quite a few questions on this topic and have done some interesting reading on it just lately, most interestingly, and I wish I had the reference here but I do not, that neither traits objectively exist and that adaptive, healthy, adjusted individuals will deploy thinking and behaviour associated with either as it suits them to provide stimulation or de-stimulation. I'm not convinced on that one and a lot of authors dont appear to be either.

    Do you think that either is objectively valued and promoted rather than the other? Is society conditioning people to be either more introverted or more extroverted and why?

    Lately I think there's been a lot of Intraversion publishing, at least these books are being offered to reviewers in the Amazon Vine programme for review a few months in a row, but that publishing could be a canny ploy to a captive market if there are a lot of people mistaking social anxiety or whatever for a personality trait.

    On the other hand I've never seen a book dedicated to overcoming the problems experienced or anticipated and associated with extroversion, so its clearly not considered that debilitating.

    What do you think accounts for the popular understanding or recognition of extroversion and introversion as traits as opposed to other cognitive functions, intuition, sensing, thinking, feeling, percepting?
    Well, human beings are a social species. We therefore see seclusion as negative, and encourage introverts to come out of their shell. Indeed, I don't see any practical benefits to introversion over extroversion, myself.
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  8. #8
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    ^

    Individuality is frowned upon. It reminds of Huxley's "Brave New World".
    I don't think individuality is the issue here; ExxPs are very individualistic, and ISxJs are very... not.

    Weren't you an ESFJ yesterday, by the way?
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  9. #9
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    i'm not in a shell. generally speaking, i'm just not buying what you're selling. disdain. boredom. not fear.

    that said, different types of extroverts could open me up more than some estj/esfj (which is a lot of whom i know) would.

  10. #10
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Hmmm...I'm getting used to being back in an enviroment where being considered introverted is less than desirable. I've had a rough ride over this issue job wise, because it does get percieved negatively. In a world, where perferring to work alone is percieved as troublesome and unco-operative, and independence means questioning authority, it's no assett. Quiet means lack of communication skills etc. You can see where I'm going with this.
    So you learn to walk the walk, and talk the talk of an extrovert, but I'm never going to understand why it's so necessary to bond over drinkies on a Friday night, or why I can't chill over DVD's on a Sunday by myself.
    I have to be careful, because I do get really sick if I over extend myself in this manner.

    It reminds of a situation that arose in my child hood.One summer I had a friend who used to come over at the crack of dawn, and wouldn't leave until sundown. Intially my mother that it was great I wasn't spending so much time alone, but as the week went past, and I grew more tired and cranky (I literally didn't have five minutes to myself...if my friend went home she call me on the phone.) People thought it was cute she was inseperable from me. I found it was tourture...after a while, my mother took pity on me, because she could see I was getting overwhelmed and very tired, and began making my friend go home earlier and banning her from coming round so early in the morning. I ended up getting really sick though (glandular fever). My mum put a stop to all the visits and phone calls after my friend woke me up one evening, after explicit instructions from my mother and her mother not too (mind you was something like 730pm). Last couple of weeks before school were bliss. She got grounded for that incident, so apart from the odd phone call, my time was my own. I remember my mother promised me if I said some thing or signaled to her after that, she would organise my friend to home once school got back. I make her sound like a pest, and nightmare. She wasn't really. If I had been an extrovert too, I'm sure I would have loved it. She was sweet, but couldn't take a hint, I mean, we'd go to church youth group, and I couldn't pee alone, cause she'd come with me, or if I wanted to go to the library, she'd come and get really bored, because I was too busy soaking up the atomosphere, and reading some thing "geeky". We got kicked out everytime, because she couldn't keep quiet for five minutes. Grrr.
    It's a very good example of what not to do with an introvert....but you know she was 12-13 and I was 11-12. Some times I'd run out into my back yard and hide from from her.
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