Any function more of less useful than others?

[uumlau]

It is a social reciprocal bond. I think you could easily split society along a Te/Fi and a Ti/Fe divide. Either side could drop the other two judging functions and be okay, the society would continue on in a stable way.

That makes sense in a hypothetical way, and is a rather thoughtful reply to the OP.

However what's neat is that biology designed us to have all 8.

I wonder how much is biology and how much is simply necessary functions of cognition? It's hard to tell since humans are unique in this regard.

The Te/Fi is more suited to heirachal agrarian society while the Ti/Fe is more suited to hunter-gatherer.

So I wonder if we werent designed to be an adaptable populace. If we ended up settled, the Te/Fi folks would begin to outpopulate the Ti/Fe hunters-yet if things changed and we had to hunt again via a disturbance in equilibrium-the cognitive framework is in place to for the population to become more suited for the hunter gatherer Ti/Fe within a few generations.

Flexible cognitive evolution. neat-o.

This hypothesis is not one to which I lend as much credence. I think it's useful for describing the different "vibes" of Te/Fi and Ti/Fe, but I don't think it's "true" per se. It is necessarily a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, assigning labels to behavior after observing the behavior.

That said, it's still a cool thought experiment, and it's interesting to see to what degree it is "sort of true." While each "kind of society" might express traits associated more with Te/Fi than Fe/Ti or vice versa, I strongly suspect that both have a strong role in either society, but that one role is more "visible" than the other.

 

[Virtual ghost]

because a lot of jobs require that skill... how will you know if someone's lying to you, or if they're genuine, for instance? Not to mention, sales would fall flat for everyone if you took Fe out of the equation, which would also hurt manufacturing and the economic impact of that would end up spreading even to the most antisocial nerd

Ok but isn't a Fe must have / must do in most situations where you are lying ?


Anyway sales would drop in the case of global lose of any function.
However there is a chance that "destruction" of a advertising industry might free some resources that can perhaps be used in a better way.

 

[Jaguar]

*feels like the only person here who's looking at the big picture of things in a way*

You are not alone, I assure you.
Oh, be careful: We have some dumbasses who don't think you can see the big picture.
The same dumbasses who also believe in canned function orders and development.
The Stepford Wives Guide To Typology. Get it at Amazon now!

 

[proteanmix]

Losing any function will be quite problematic.
However my vode goes to Fe. Since it is possible to completely replace it with Te that is supported with heallthy Fi. (at least in theory)

Hmm this is very interesting. It makes sense.

To keep with Babylon's idea, I see a Fe world view as perpetuating and engaging prosocial and eusocial attitudes and behavior.

I think that an environment devoid of Fe, but full of healthy Te and Fi would seem like a bunch of independent city-states strung together only working with each other to increase trade or business or something but without a real sense of interconnectedness or community.

 

[miss fortune]

You are not alone, I assure you.
Oh, be careful: We have some dumbasses who don't think you can see the big picture.
The same dumbasses who also believe in canned function orders and development.

I know!

and that reminds me of an article I read the other day on how canned things are bad for people... it had to do with the can lining

I'm still wondering how any function could be considered irrelevant

 

[sculpting]

That makes sense in a hypothetical way, and is a rather thoughtful reply to the OP.


I wonder how much is biology and how much is simply necessary functions of cognition? It's hard to tell since humans are unique in this regard.



This hypothesis is not one to which I lend as much credence. I think it's useful for describing the different "vibes" of Te/Fi and Ti/Fe, but I don't think it's "true" per se. It is necessarily a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, assigning labels to behavior after observing the behavior.

That said, it's still a cool thought experiment, and it's interesting to see to what degree it is "sort of true." While each "kind of society" might express traits associated more with Te/Fi than Fe/Ti or vice versa, I strongly suspect that both have a strong role in either society, but that one role is more "visible" than the other.

yes, latin lover, I agree with the post labeling as such, utter guesses for sure, however there is something very odd about why they split so evenly.

Why would biology evolve two groups which side by side just have horrific miscommunications endlessly, when either one could function in isolation alone? There is something missing or not quite right. Evolution's answer is almost always the best, thus why evolve a broken society?

There is something missing. I just guess around it. I dunno, just playing with Ne and poking at webs o' string.

 

[yvonne]

i don't think any function is less useful than others

it depends on the person, the person's relations to others and growth. it's obvious we all have our strengths and weaknesses. i think it's useful to be at least a bit familiar with every function...

 

[miss fortune]

Ok but isn't a Fe must have / must do in most situations where you are lying ?


Anyway sales would drop in the case of global lose of any function.
However there is a chance that "destruction" of a advertising industry might free some resources that can perhaps be used in a better way.

just because you don't understand Fe or like for people to be pleasant to you doesn't mean that everyone else is like you... :rolli:... even people with lower Fe usually appreciate Fe in others!

Plus, it's a helpful function because it cares about you... would you rather me not take the time out of my cover letter writing to kindly explain this to you?

 

[sculpting]

Hmm this is very interesting. It makes sense.

To keep with Babylon's idea, I see a Fe world view as perpetuating and engaging prosocial and eusocial attitudes and behavior.

I think that an environment devoid of Fe, but full of healthy Te and Fi would seem like a bunch of independent city-states strung together only working with each other to increase trade or business or something but without a real sense of interconnectedness or community.

They would be there-but founded on a few individual Fi bonds that were very tight and then Te bonds in heirachal pattarns of accountibility and responsibility which are Fi rooted and called things like integrity or loyalty. But I think on the surface it would appear much more harsh than an Fe society-yet would function okay.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Hmm this is very interesting. It makes sense.

To keep with Babylon's idea, I see a Fe world view as perpetuating and engaging prosocial and eusocial attitudes and behavior.

I think that an environment devoid of Fe, but full of healthy Te and Fi would seem like a bunch of independent city-states strung together only working with each other to increase trade or business or something but without a real sense of interconnectedness or community.

Yes. Since the Te makes sure that you see that as soon as you go against the "system" you are risking collapse which will probably lead to your death.

Also just because there is no Fe that does not apply that the concept of community is out of the equation. It is just that people would be far more reserved towards each other.


Place a number of IxTJs in one place and you will see this dynamic at work.

 

[sculpting]

just because you don't understand Fe or like for people to be pleasant to you doesn't mean that everyone else is like you... :rolli:... even people with lower Fe usually appreciate Fe in others!

Plus, it's a helpful function because it cares about you... would you rather me not take the time out of my cover letter writing to kindly explain this to you?

I wish I had Fe. It really is very beautiful and caring. I dont always understand it and I know I irritate Fe users, but yeah, there is beauty in that sense of social caring and togetherness.

 

[Jaguar]

I'm still wondering how any function could be considered irrelevant

I think I'll leave that one alone. Things might get ugly.

 

[yvonne]

i've thought about this from the Ti/ Fi angle. perhaps if INTPs, for example, were to develop a strong Fi, would their Ti suffer from that? we need people who have a strong Ti, as we need people who have a strong Fi, as well.

 

[uumlau]

yes, latin lover, I agree with the post labeling as such, utter guesses for sure, however there is something very odd about why they split so evenly.

Why would biology evolve two groups which side by side just have horrific miscommunications endlessly, when either one could function in isolation alone? There is something missing or not quite right. Evolution's answer is almost always the best, thus why evolve a broken society?

There is something missing. I just guess around it. I dunno, just playing with Ne and poking at webs o' string.

Sometimes that which regard as "imperfect" is actually rather perfect as is: the imperfection is our understanding, that that which we observe.

I can write "perfect" computer code. It doesn't do very much, but it will be bug-free, easy to maintain, always work exactly correctly.

However, in order to write useful code, imperfections creep in. What happens is that there are all sorts of "use cases" with conflicting requirements. In order to meet all of the requirements, some of them must be compromised to a degree. The more utility you want in the code, the more "imperfections" must exist.

Now take that argument to the biological/sociological level: the systems are extremely complex, no one is capable of fully understanding all of the interactions. Yet it all mostly "works" in spite of the "imperfections." One sample necessary imperfection: aging. People get old. But the alternative appears to be worse - some research indicates that cancer is the result of cells that don't acknowledge the DNA's aging instructions, and thus grow out of control.

When I see things that I think could be made better, I remain very cautious. I live by the maxim, "Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it."

 

[proteanmix]

Yes. Since the Te makes sure that you see that as soon as you go against the "system" you are risking collapse which will probably lead to your death.

Also just because there is no Fe that does not apply that the concept of community is out of the equation. It is just that people would be far more reserved towards each other.


Place a number of IxTJs in one place and you will see this dynamic at work.

I know what a Fi/Te environment looks like because I work in one (as opposed to a Te/Fi environment). Even being in a Fi/Te environment there's not much of a sense of cohesiveness...they seem to be afterthoughts or concessions to vague feelings that people want to feel like their contributions matter or that people need to be actively shown appreciation, merit, or reward.

Which is funny because even if it's not an active thought that others may want or need it, it's still very much appreciated when it's given. Which is some kind of twisted irony I think.

 

[Virtual ghost]

just because you don't understand Fe or like for people to be pleasant to you doesn't mean that everyone else is like you... :rolli:... even people with lower Fe usually appreciate Fe in others!

Plus, it's a helpful function because it cares about you... would you rather me not take the time out of my cover letter writing to kindly explain this to you?

This is not about what I prefer. This is about which function you can remove and still have a society. In other words: removal of wich function would cause smallest damage? So I said Fe and gave my reasons. (what people like is not in the center here)


What would be your vote/choice then ?


Also Fi which you are trying to develope/understand is fully capable of caring for people. It is just that it is not so open and visible.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It's also interesting that women tend to be 70+% F, and vice versa men, T. Even if you consider half of those women are Fe, that's 35-40% Fe in women. It must be important somehow, perhaps for child rearing and extended family cohesiveness, yet these concepts might not be as important in a developing, burgeoning world with more limited population growth. But overcrowding will become/is a serious situation in cities, etc. I can only imagine what ignorance to a societal code of ethics would look like in future, as overcrowding increases. Our technology can only take us so far, we have to live with each other along the way.

 

[miss fortune]

This is not about what I prefer. This is about which function you can remove and still have a society. In other words: removal of wich function would cause smallest damage? So I said Fe and gave my reasons. (what people like is not in the center here)


What would be your vote/choice then ?


Also Fi which you are trying to develope/understand is fully capable of caring for people. It is just that it is not so open and visible.

without Fe there wouldn't BE a cohesive society!

seriously

I wouldn't vote to get rid of ANY of them- they all have their place and necessity- it'd be like choosing whether I'd rather get rid of my liver, lungs or heart!

 

[Virtual ghost]

without Fe there wouldn't BE a cohesive society!

seriously

I wouldn't vote to get rid of ANY of them- they all have their place and necessity- it'd be like choosing whether I'd rather get rid of my liver, lungs or heart!

Correct. Basicly this is what I said a few posts back.
However this is one of those "what if" threads that has a hard choice in it.

 

[Jaguar]

without Fe there wouldn't BE a cohesive society!

I suddenly pictured having dinner at a restaurant with "No Fe."

Jag: I'll have the filet mignon, please.
Waiter: Fuck you, asshole! Get it yourself! I'm not your goddamn servant!