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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    The box. Learn not to trust it.
    Apparently, you haven't read many of my posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Consider the following:

    1) The dominant function is the function we use to absorb process information. The auxiliary function is used to organize and communicate said information.
    Ummm, that's not even "the box" you're describing.

    The dominant function isn't the function that we use to "absorb process" information.

    The dominant function is simply the mind's top functional spot.

    What function is in the dominant position determines what the dominant position does.

    It sounds like you're mistaking the dominant position for a P function, and the auxiliary position for a J function...

    Perhaps because you're a P-dom and J-aux...?

    J-doms and P-auxs do things differently, ya know?

    Hence why ENTJs seem so bossy: they act before they process.

    INTJs, on the other hand, seem less bossy: they process before they act.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Conclusion: Jung was an idiot, and a better cognitive function theory is needed.
    Not that I agree with everything Jung said (I mean, he believed functions 2-4 were all of opposite attitude to function 1, which has since fallen out of favor, and which I, personally, think is complete bullshit), but you might want to be a little more careful about who you go around calling an idiot, and gain a better grasp of the current typological theory(s) before you do...

  2. #52
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Well, Aleksei, I disagree, but I'm not sure where to start.

    I'll stick with my first and still the simplest point, I suppose.

    I referenced the triangle because it is true by definition. What you are saying of the ENTJ would make what you're talking about not an ENTJ.

    So my question then is what on earth do you think the ENTJ's processes really are?

    I'm not even touching on the fact that I question your understanding of all processes in discussion right now as well as the significance of being dominant and auxiliary. Also, you are being awfully assertive about what ENTJs are like. How do you know this so well, and how do you reconcile it with that fact that someone typed as ENTJs has a high chance of being typed as such through a test based on the system you are saying is wrong?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #53
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    All functions are important just as we need all sixteen types to form this civilization.

    P.S. FI-NE IS AWESOME!

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    In the absence of any of the functions humans become dysfunctional and society goes to hell in a hand basket. With that, I find it hard to say if there is really any that is less useful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I like your notion, and I think I mostly agree with it (although, I fear it treads a little bit into the "we live in the best of all possible worlds" idea), but, I want to see what function you think Ni serves in society and what would happen to society without it.

    I just want to see your answer...
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan
    I might still not be up to snuff, but I'll wing it.

    I think Ni is so abstract and so latent that it lends itself toward that image of questionable use. One might say that Ni is the very last process that a person uses in the extremely rapid sequence of new entity processing (conventionally, Se is thought to be the first). In that way, it might be true to say that Ni is more "dependent" on other processes than the rest, but that doesn't prevent it from being vital itself, and it may still be as necessary to functioning as all the rest.

    So how you ask? Ni is basically the manner in which we adapt our own perception. Surely it is the most subjective Perceiving process. I noticed a lot of people were suggesting Fi is the most useless, which is funny since that's the most subjective Judging process. People don't seem to get the point of the subjective. Since Ni allows us to make our own perspective and definition for things, I believe it is probably necessary to adapt to life, and really, just to make the ridiculous hordes of information we deal with every day manageable and organizable.

    Ni turns bad in its over-use when it becomes solipsism. Get carried away with Ni and you'll define and redefine things however you like, whenver you like, and it will be your habit to bend reality to your mind.
    Let me make this a little easier on you:

    I think the most important purpose of Ni is to come up with visions that have never been thought up before, to think completely outside the box, so as to offer up insights that can potentially drive human innovation forward.

    You say that Ni and Fi are the most subjective functions, and I think I know what you mean in this particular sense of the word (that they're derived from the subject -- as to why Si and Ti are less subjective, in your opinion, is an interesting question, but I can imagine a reason or two for each, I guess), but they're also completely capable of realizing (Ni) and feeling (Fi) things that are completely objectively sound, and this is where the value of each function comes in.

    When each realizes or feels something true in the world that is derived from its subjectivity but is in accordance with the real world, they can not only see things that the rest of the crowd might be completely blind to (Ni), but they can also act in complete and total opposition to the crowd without feeling the need to conform to some social principle (Fi).

    I think people might think these might most useless (frankly, it blows me away that people think Fi is useless -- Ni is at least somewhat understandable) because the circumstances in which they are necessary might be rare and uncommon.

    Regardless, when the crowd is failing to either see or act what or how it should, these functions can be almost messianic or martyr-like.

  5. #55
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Yes, I suppose what you're saying about the value of Ni is true. Two points though.

    1) It's pretty haphazard, and that aspect of Ni is perhaps as much it's weakness as it's strength, due to how dependent it is on a disconnection from ideas that congruent with the world that is already established.

    2) I'm not sure if it is necessary for those goals. Helpful perhaps, but I don't know if it's necessary. So, I think I might veer away from that one in so far as it wouldn't show why humans absolutely need Ni.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #56
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    What are your opinions? Would the world fall apart, if for example, Fe became extinct, or there was a global ban on Ni?

    Have fun with this one!
    Se rules. It is the fuel of on the fly analysis, which correctly channeled leads to the ability to improvise your way to the reality of your desires.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
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    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  7. #57
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    On the fly analysis and improvisation is Ne. Se is detail awareness.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  8. #58
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    Hmm... Well, asking what function is most useful in the human psyche is like asking what element is most useful in the periodic table. Sure, you can use some elements for specific purposes, and make compounds for other purposes; but surely the universe would not be in its present state without these elements - and the universe imposes its will on us more than we impose our will on the universe. Keep that in mind, literally.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes, I suppose what you're saying about the value of Ni is true. Two points though.

    1) It's pretty haphazard, and that aspect of Ni is perhaps as much it's weakness as it's strength, due to how dependent it is on a disconnection from ideas that congruent with the world that is already established.
    Any function is haphazard when used haphazardly.

    When used properly in conjunction with Te or Fe, this is much less the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    2) I'm not sure if it is necessary for those goals. Helpful perhaps, but I don't know if it's necessary. So, I think I might veer away from that one in so far as it wouldn't show why humans absolutely need Ni.
    The same could be said of any of the functions:

    Is each particular function necessary for the particular act it is more likely to create? No.

    Does increased presence of that function increase the likelihood that that particular act will take place? Yes.

  10. #60
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    On the fly analysis and improvisation is Ne. Se is detail awareness.
    Unless you are aware of the details you can't improvise worth shit, they are inextricably linked, and therefore one, or something like that.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

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