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  1. #21
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Without Fi we have no sense of self. We have no sense of enjoyment, nor most of what makes us human.
    I disagree. No single one of these functions = our sense of self. We have the "us" as a blob of self. Then we have our little world views we acquire as we go, the molds are applied to the blob until it has a certain number of sides.

    Did Einstein have no sense of enjoyment? So I guess Einstein now has every function and merely gear shifts?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    lol no. Define Fi.
    If we look at functions not as gear shifting, but as worldviews we take on when decision making, Fi is rather simple to define:


    Fi: Double checks for anything that is simply unconscionable, regardless of cause/effect, results or bottom line "success".

    "Is anyone's future success, integrity, health or self-esteem is being jeopardized by these methods?"

    "Is it conscionable to be managing the staff like they are all idiot peons?"
    Other examples that easily fit this definition: "making it legal to sell organs would definitely solve economic problems and be the cause of getting some results (Te world view), but do we really want to live in a world that treats human beings like commodities? I find that unconscionable, no matter how effective!" (Fi world view)

  2. #22
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    Almost by definition, Fi is the function most opposed to being useful. So now we must ask, how useful is the "unconcionable alarm system"? I think its rather easily replaced by properly functioning Fe and Ti working together...
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Without Fi we have no sense of self. We have no sense of enjoyment, nor most of what makes us human.
    Agreed with Aleksei. Fi's job is not to be effective by Je standards. It's supposed to be a relaxing, soul-searching function, because no person or machine in this day can truly operate on 100% efficiency. They all need their down-time: moments to just think, dream, and get in touch with the inner self. Fi is also good at stimulating passion from within, making all the hard-work and challenges we go through seem pleasurable, and meaningful. In a way, introverted feeling is a great catalyst for saving (and creating) personal energy in the long-run. It makes sure that energy is spent in the 'right' places. Of course, in Fe-Doms, they play a less important role, but are nonetheless, useful for other types.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  3. #23
    Pumpernickel
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    This is going to be a Fi thread

  4. #24
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    Agreed with Aleksei. Fi's job is not to be effective by Je standards. It's supposed to be a relaxing, soul-searching function, because no person or machine in this day can truly operate on 100% efficiency. They all need their down-time: moments to just think, dream, and get in touch with the inner self. Fi is also good at stimulating passion from within, making all the hard-work and challenges we go through seem pleasurable, and meaningful. In a way, introverted feeling is a great catalyst for saving (and creating) personal energy in the long-run. It makes sure that energy is spent in the 'right' places. Of course, in Fe-Doms, they play a less important role, but are nonetheless, useful for other types.
    I think you guys are assinging way too much to functions. Here's a picture to explain:

    "===" is function
    "----" is just our general "conscious self"
    "{{{{" is some enneagram
    "(((((" is some enneagram instincts

    Here is how you guys are viewing this:
    Human psychology:
    ((({{{{================----==============}}}}}))))
    Here is how I view it:
    Human psychology:
    ((({{{{{{{{{{=======-----------------------------=====}}}}}}}})))))
    Notice how much more "===" takes up % in yours. Notice how much credit I give to "-----". Not everything humans do is meant to be catagorized by MBTI functions.
    Last edited by Venom; 04-27-2010 at 04:56 PM.

  5. #25
    Pumpernickel
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    LOL babylon!!!!

    A+ for amusement.

  6. #26
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    Without Ne we'd still be living in caves and fishing fire out of trees.
    We need people with crazy, impractical ideas who are not interesting in being realistic. Their effort may not pay off now, but in the future, we'll see their ideas and creativity built into society's structure by the pragmatic individuals/opportunists, and stabilized through people dedicated to establishing consistency. They are the front-runners for inspiring people to do the impossible, and bringing color in this world.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    HAHAHA. I needed that good laugh.

  8. #28
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    I think you guys are assinging way too much to functions.
    Definitely, never disagreed that one or two function can act as a substitution for another, but my post is meant to indicate four things (which may have gotten lost along the message):

    a.) For some people, they don't have any other means of substitution.
    b.) One function can prompt the other to work at their best.
    c.) Using another function to get the same results will only change the path they must take. Depending on the type of problem, sometimes there's no other method.
    d.) Functions are indicative of how something is done. Introverted or Extroverted? Convergent or Divergent? Etc.

    For example: If Fe is feeling down, then Fi can "scope" out the individual problem by encouraging the Fe to look inside to see what they want. When that happens, Fe gets back to doing Fe-esque activities.

    Or if Fe wants to cheer up Fi, then they may do so by relating to the social atmosphere, and how the roles are interconnected.

    *PS: As for the Enneagram, it's the best system I've seen for describing the "whys". The instinctual variants tell us "where" that happens. "What" can be attributed to 'the general "conscious self" ' (your words).
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  9. #29
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    I dont think so. I think all functions depend on each other (as I touched on in the "feeling thinking differenting"thread)

    Without feeling functions, we would have no will. We would be apatethic, not caring wheter we died or not.

    Without thinking functions, we might have had alot of desires and stuff, but we'd have no means to act on them. It'd be like being hungry without knowing how to acquire food.

    Without intuitive functions, we'd only know the details with no means to make sense of them.

    Without sensing functions, we'd be lost from the real world. I guess.

    Thing is, I see all functions as depending on each other and as equally important, without one we'd not be able to live at all. Even animals have all functions (f-motives,t-means,s-sensing,n-connections). But we have personality preference, meaning we tend to focus and excel at one or two of them.

    On the introverted-extroverted scale, I also see them both as important. Extrovert is mainly associated with action, while introverted with reflection. Both definately needed.

    Speculative, perhaps, but this is how I make sense of jungian functions.

  10. #30
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Do we really need another Fi-hate thread? :rolli:


    I'd say Ni - that's why Ni-doms are so "rare". Nature has deemed them largely useless.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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