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  1. #1

    Default Let's talk about Keirsey

    Keirsey Temperament Sorter

    * The inner ring: abstract versus concrete

    According to Keirsey, everyone can engage in both observation and introspection. When people touch objects, watch a basketball game, taste food, or otherwise perceive the world through their five senses, they are observant. When people reflect and focus on their internal world, they are introspective. However, individuals cannot engage in observation and introspection at the same time. The extent to which people are more observant or introspective directly affects their behavior.

    People who are generally observant are more 'down to earth.' They are more concrete in their worldview and tend to focus on practical matters such as food, shelter, and their immediate relationships. Carl Jung used the word sensing when describing concrete people. People who are generally introspective are more 'head in the clouds.' They are more abstract in their world view and tend to focus on global or theoretical issues such as equality or engineering. Carl Jung used the word intuition when describing abstract people.

    * The second ring: cooperative versus pragmatic (utilitarian)

    Keirsey uses the words cooperative (complying) and pragmatic (adaptive) when comparing the differing temperaments. People who are cooperative pay more attention to other people's opinions and are more concerned with doing the right thing. People who are pragmatic (utilitarian) pay more attention to their own thoughts or feelings and are more concerned with doing what works. There is no comparable idea of Myers or Jung that corresponds to this dichotomy, so this is a significant difference between Keirsey's work and that of Myers and Jung.

    This ring, in combination with the inner ring, determines a person's temperament. The pragmatic temperaments are Rationals (pragmatic and abstract) and Artisans (pragmatic and concrete). The cooperative temperaments are Idealists (cooperative and abstract), and Guardians (cooperative and concrete). Neither Myers nor Jung included the concept of temperament in their work.

    * The third ring: directive (proactive) versus informative (reactive)

    The third ring distinguishes between people who generally communicate by informing others versus people who generally communicate by directing others. Each of the four temperaments is subdivided by this distinction for a result of eight roles.

    The directive roles are Operators (directive Artisans), Administrators (directive Guardians), Mentors (directive Idealists), and Coordinators (directive Rationals). The informative roles are Entertainers (informative Artisans), Conservators (informative Guardians), Advocates (informative Idealists), and Engineers (informative Rationals).

    * The fourth ring: expressive versus attentive

    The fourth ring describes how people interact with their environment. Individuals who tend to act before observing are described as expressive, whereas people who tend to observe before acting are described as attentive.

    Each of the eight categories can be subdivided by this distinction, for a total of 16 role variants. These 16 role variants correlate to the 16 Myers-Briggs types.

    The expressive role variants are Promoters (expressive Operators), Performers (expressive Entertainers), Supervisors (expressive Administrators), Providers (expressive Conservators), Teachers (expressive Mentors), Champions (expressive Advocates), Fieldmarshals (expressive Coordinators), and Inventors (expressive Engineers).

    The attentive role variants are Crafters (attentive Operators), Composers (attentive Entertainers), Inspectors (attentive Administrators), Protectors (attentive Conservators), Counselors (attentive Mentors), Healers (attentive Advocates), Masterminds (attentive Coordinators), and Architects (attentive Engineers).
    So I have a few questions.

    Did Keirsey use mbti cognitive based descriptions for his type descriptions?
    The split between istp and isfp is at the informing/directing level. How does that account for the mechanical ability of one and artistic level of the other
    in the descriptions.


    Does your type change depending on your environment? It makes more sense to me if it did. You could change from isfp to esfp relative to your environment. And if you were more, for example expressive, then you would tend to take on the role of that type in that particular environment.

  2. #2
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    No.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodgrief View Post
    No.
    No to talking about Keirsey or no to the questions I asked? Either way you weren't much use.

  4. #4
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Did Keirsey use mbti cognitive based descriptions for his type descriptions?
    No. He loosely co-opted the MB structure, but his system does not utilize cognitive processes at all. It is a non-cognitive theory. It is more behavioral and affective, temperamental really. Hence the name.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    The split between istp and isfp is at the informing/directing level. How does that account for the mechanical ability of one and artistic level of the other
    in the descriptions.
    I can't answer this one for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Does your type change depending on your environment? It makes more sense to me if it did. You could change from isfp to esfp relative to your environment. And if you were more, for example expressive, then you would tend to take on the role of that type in that particular environment.
    Since Keirsey's types are defined by external behavior, the answer to this has to be yes, even he himself would deny it. Over the course of ones life time, behavior is only very vaguely consistent, with that itself sub-divided into noticable stages of greater change.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  5. #5
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I think I am inbetween on abstract and concrete, balanced on the second but probably leaning towards cooperative, and I'm directive and attentive.

    Therefore I lie somewhere between INFJ and ISTJ.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  6. #6
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy View Post
    Keirsey Temperament Sorter



    So I have a few questions.

    Did Keirsey use mbti cognitive based descriptions for his type descriptions?
    The split between istp and isfp is at the informing/directing level. How does that account for the mechanical ability of one and artistic level of the other
    in the descriptions.


    Does your type change depending on your environment? It makes more sense to me if it did. You could change from isfp to esfp relative to your environment. And if you were more, for example expressive, then you would tend to take on the role of that type in that particular environment.
    Lets not talk about Keirsey because his work on personality theory has been thoroughly discredited by serious researchers.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  7. #7
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Lets not talk about Keirsey because his work on personality theory has been thoroughly discredited by serious researchers.
    Strange how you can't resist coming into a topic about him, though. Feel free to not click on it.

    I noticed you never answered my question as to what "non-folk typology' accomplishes.
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  8. #8
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I noticed you never answered my question as to what "non-folk typology' accomplishes.
    Oooooh, this should be good.
    Inquiring minds want to know...
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  9. #9
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    I noticed you never answered my question as to what "non-folk typology' accomplishes.
    Accurate understanding of type and its relevance to personality theory which allows for more benign clinical implementation of typology.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  10. #10
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Lets not talk about Keirsey...
    Stalin has risen from the grave to censor Typology Central.

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