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  1. #41
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You are ascribing the interpretation of an inferior experience; I contend it is merely different, but I don't feel threatened in the least. Just because I use a passionate metaphor does not mean I am out to "bust his chops".
    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    (uumlau - if you want me to prune the off-topic stuff, just let me know.)
    There is no reason to prune.

    I've got this big bad evil horn on my head, should things get too rough.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    uumlau has been doing fabulous so far fielding what I'm pitching.
    Thanks, PB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    To be fair, I did think the same thing that Peacebaby mentioned. Though, I also have to admit that PB went about it a bit more zealous than I would've, especially also coz I know Uumlau..and his tertiary Fi is pretty damn good.

    PB, I think that if you were to make that thread on Te, it would probably get ridiculed and filled with NT jokes...but that's just an educated guess.

    However, I do look forward on seeing a thread on Fi from the pov of the tertiary user, it'll be interesting to compare notes. *subscribes*
    Thanks, Satine.

    I think one of the main reasons I have to contribute to overall Fi understanding is that unlike an Fi dom, I started off ignoring it as best I could. The reason I have a "map to Fi" is that I had to go and find it again. I'd like to share that map with others who are looking for the same thing. I can understand your feelings and PB's feelings on the matter: a lot of what I say will "sound wrong" because of where I'm coming from. You might need to turn the map upside down, or perhaps I need to put a "You are here" on the part of the map where a truly advanced Fi user would be (or perhaps you and PB and other Fi doms can help put it there for me ).

    The point of this is to share knowledge and understanding of Fi. If we put all of our "maps" together, we all win.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    OK, you're going to prune off-topic (read PB's posts) out of an Fi thread?

    Are you concerned that uumlau can't handle it? Of course he can. He's utterly capable but his descriptors of Fi can be as challenged as any other assumption ...
    I've told Night to do no pruning.

    INFP input is VERY WELCOME. Is that clear, everyone?

    (as is xNFP input and, well, XXXX input, OK?! *sigh*)

    I do intend to keep an eye on tangents, though. On that note, Sim, if you'd care to discuss your understanding of Fe, I'm sure Night would be happy to branch your comments into your own thread.

    In this thread, Fi is the primary topic, and the other functions should generally just be mentioned in passing or to make a point about Fi. I will ask any nascent Fi/Fe debates to be pruned or put into a separate thread.

    OK, I'm ready for more questions or challenges. Let's hear those Fi ideas.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    This is a very strange thread.

  3. #43
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Haha. Oh, the irony.
    Night, it's not irony, it's a metaphor. I am using descriptive, metaphorical, symbolic language to address uumlau because I know he will "get it". (And so does every Fi user I suspect.) I am sorry you don't receive the message in the way I intend it. I have an INTP brother so I respectfully appreciate why you don't.

    If you want to learn more about Fi in general, as my INTP brother now does at the tender age of 41, I welcome you with open arms.

    And I send you a you big instigator. Sit back and enjoy the ride. Or not, it's your choice. But I hope you stick around despite your cynicism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Yeah, it's clear you're in here to learn. . .
    I am not in this thread to learn. I am here to critique and challenge and enjoy and toss around some ideas and concepts and have them challenged too. Perhaps I will learn something. That wasn't my intent upon entering the thread though.

    If you want to see Fi through the Ni / Te lens, of course uumlau is the best to answer such queries. There's a great deal of value in examining it so.

    And I hope LOTS of people ask questions!

    But ice cream comes in many flavors. Mine is a just different flavor. I was serving some full-on Fi ... it can be very tasty my friend.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #44
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    You just saw one

    PB is basically standing up for what she believes is right and true and considers it important that the nuances she stressed are noted by those who read this stuff, to make sure the context of what is being taught here is correct.
    What's really cool about that is it's exactly parallel to an INTP wanting to make sure Ti-logic is all perfectly correct.

    I'll admit my approach to Fi is, um, unrefined, but that's mostly because I'm not "there" yet. I am, however, a lot closer than some other people are, and sometimes it helps to have someone to blaze the trail. Sometimes the "unrefined" version is more clear to those who don't understand enough to see how the nuances matter.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  5. #45
    heart on fire
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    I tend to let Te "out to play" in my forum life. I'd shudder to think what my life would be like if I did that IRL.

    For me, Fi is the parent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Night View Post
    Seems like you're going beyond simply "busting his chops".

    I'm confused by your behavior.
    The words "bust his chops" with PB's name makes me .

    I thought she raised a valid point and was respectful about it.

  6. #46
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I tend to let Te "out to play" in my forum life. I'd shudder to think what my life would be like if I did that IRL.

    For me, Fi is the parent.
    I'd like to hear a more detailed description of this, heart.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  7. #47
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    You just saw one

    PB is basically standing up for what she believes is right and true and considers it important that the nuances she stressed are noted by those who read this stuff, to make sure the context of what is being taught here is correct.
    I actually find the difference between Fe and Fi standing up for their beleifs to be entertaining, because both can be pretty combative but Fe users seem to argue in broader strokes in a way...

    PB's stressing of specific notes to make sure that the context is correct is almost focusing in on the details of the offense and her corrections of it. My sis is an ENFJ and I've NEVER seen her get that specific in her "smiting of the evildoers"- she tends to be more interested in taking offense to overarching principles and arguing on a global scale instead The looking at things on a micro vs macro level is kind of an interesting concept of how Fi works versus Fe (I understand Fe much better!)

    Did I get the point?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  8. #48
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'd like to hear a more detailed description of this, heart.
    ever read a political thread in which heart was a participant?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #49
    heart on fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    ever read a political thread in which heart was a participant?
    Yeah, see I thought it didn't take any explaination whatsoever.

    Well, that's all the devestating self-honesty I am up for right now so...

  10. #50
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I actually find the difference between Fe and Fi standing up for their beleifs to be entertaining, because both can be pretty combative but Fe users seem to argue in broader strokes in a way...

    PB's stressing of specific notes to make sure that the context is correct is almost focusing in on the details of the offense and her corrections of it. My sis is an ENFJ and I've NEVER seen her get that specific in her "smiting of the evildoers"- she tends to be more interested in taking offense to overarching principles and arguing on a global scale instead The looking at things on a micro vs macro level is kind of an interesting concept of how Fi works versus Fe (I understand Fe much better!)

    Did I get the point?
    The devil's in the details
    So, in a way, yes

    You're right, Fe does go over things in broader strokes, to have a workable model that doesn't take that long to figure out. A general practical way of how the world works, though still plenty detailed in Fe-doms. Fe also seems to work more with the 'this is right' and 'this is wrong' thing than Fi does (exceptions do exists, such as the corevalues, see below). Sure, there is a grayscale, but to be efficient socially, Fe is way more willing to judge, in order to get things moving and get to the part where you can fix it and smoothing things out.

    Fi on the other hand is all about nuances. The grayscale gets dragged out even more. Every piece is a precise and vital piece of the puzzle. Right and wrong is therefore very much dependent on the context, and ultimately often irrelevant. It's about understanding the situation, and the proper context to perceive it in, in order to gain a deeper knowledge, a blueprints as to how something works. It's like a work of art really. Certainly not practical, forever slow and nitpicky, but oh so beautiful when done just right

    The exception I am talking about, is often more clearly viewed in younger enfps. Certain pristine, pure values are upheld, and those will be defended vehemently. They're like axioms in math. Truths to be upheld. With age and experience, you can still redefine them, add a grayscale, but it takes a lot of insight and wisdom to do so without corrupting them. Fi either finds right and wrong irrelevant or..in the other extreme, Fi dictates there is no other way to do it. When that rears its head..you've hit upon one of those sacred values. Back away slowely and nobody will get hurt
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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