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  1. #1
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    Default Pi = Judger, Pe = Perceiver; why?

    Maybe this is known to some of you, but I'm sure it's not known to the lot of you...

    I was kicking some thoughts around in my head the other day, and I realized that all NJs (INTJ, INFJ, ENTJ, ENFJ) are either Ni doms or Ni auxs.

    At the same time, all NPs (INTP, ENTP, INFP, ENFP) are Ne doms or Ne auxs.

    Then I realized that something similar holds true for Ss.

    All SJs (ISTJ, ESTJ, ISFJ, ESFJ) are Si doms or auxs, and all SPs (ESFP, ISTP, ESTP, ISFP) are Se doms or auxs.

    Accordingly, all Pi doms or auxs are Judgers, and all Pe doms or auxs are Perceivers.

    So, my question to you is: what is it about having Pi (Ni,Si) as your dom or aux that makes one a Judger, and what is it about Pe (Ne,Se) as your dom or aux that makes one a Perceiver?


  2. #2
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    Oh, and before anyone gets there, I suppose I should mention that if Pi is your dom or aux, then Je is inherently your aux or dom.

    And for Pe doms and auxs the same holds true with regards to Ji.

    The correlation for these phenomena is 100%; the question is, what is the cause?

  3. #3
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    It's about the orientation of the extroverted function. Pi dom/aux have extroverted judging functions (Fe or Te) and Pe dom/aux have extroverted perceiving functions (Ne or Se).

    EDIT: I don't know. It's probably some balancing act of the mind. If you didn't have the contrast, you mind would probably fracture to an extent (cognitive dissonance).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    It's about the orientation of the extroverted function. Pi dom/aux have extroverted judging functions (Fe or Te) and Pe dom/aux have extroverted perceiving functions (Ne or Se).
    Yeah, I said as much in the second post.

    But why does that make one a Judger and one a Perceiver?

    Why wouldn't one with Ji be called a Judger and one with Pi be called a Perceiver?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitseleh View Post
    EDIT: I don't know. It's probably some balancing act of the mind.
    Got it.

    I know my hypothesis.

    I just want to see what others drum up...

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    Hint: it's easier for me to understand why Judgers would be called Judgers.

    What I can't quite wrap my head around is why Perceivers would be called Perceivers...

  7. #7
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    MBTI labels P/J based on the extroverted function, because that is the "face" you show; it's how you deal with the external world.

    The auxiliary function is opposite in nature; if the dominant function is judging & extroverted, then the aux must be perceiving and it would be oriented inward for balance. MBTI is based on Jung's theory, and he seemed to think that this balance was logical and so MBTI developed the function order accordingly.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Hint: it's easier for me to understand why Judgers would be called Judgers.

    What I can't quite wrap my head around is why Perceivers would be called Perceivers...
    Uh, well to me I find that the IxxP's can sometimes seem a bit J-ish compared to the ExxP, whose perceiving function isn't only extraverted, but uppermost in usage and preference. I mean, you can sort of see ExxP's flexing, looking, perceiving, whilst IxxP's when they talk, it feels to me like it's coming from their dominant Ji function.

    Nothing scientific there, just my own inklings, for what it's worth.
    I'm male and over 30, FYI.
    Preferences: 20% Extravert, 98% Intuitive, 68% Thinker, 17% Perceiving

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    MBTI labels P/J based on the extroverted function, because that is the "face" you show; it's how you deal with the external world.

    The auxiliary function is opposite in nature; if the dominant function is judging & extroverted, then the aux must be perceiving and it would be oriented inward for balance. MBTI is based on Jung's theory, and he seemed to think that this balance was logical and so MBTI developed the function order accordingly.
    So then, would Je doms have more of whatever "Judgers" have than Je auxs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by proximo View Post
    Uh, well to me I find that the IxxP's can sometimes seem a bit J-ish compared to the ExxP, whose perceiving function isn't only extraverted, but uppermost in usage and preference. I mean, you can sort of see ExxP's flexing, looking, perceiving, whilst IxxP's when they talk, it feels to me like it's coming from their dominant Ji function.

    Nothing scientific there, just my own inklings, for what it's worth.
    No, that's actually good stuff!

    Check this out. When coupled with what I say below...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    So then, would Je doms have more of whatever "Judgers" have than Je auxs?
    ... it would seem that there would be a spectrum from Judger to Perceiver:

    ExxJs would be the most judgmental.
    IxxJs would the second most.
    IxxPs would be the third most.
    and ExxPs would be the least judgmental.

    Does the same really go for perceptiveness?

    Would ExxPs be the most perceptive?
    Followed by IxxPs?
    Followed by IxxJs?
    Followed by ExxJs?

    It seems to work rather cleanly from most judgmental to least judgmental, but are IxxJs and ExxJs indeed less perceptive than ExxPs and IxxPs?

    I guess the question becomes: is perceiving really a thing-in-itself, or is it simply a lack of judging?

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