ISXX? Curious about type.

[oxymoron]

I have a friend who is curious about his type, and is vacillating between ISFJ and ISTP as the 2 possible ones. I know they are unlikely to mix up, he just has a well developed feeling side and likes to see himself as responsible and trustworthy. He hardly knows about the MBTI, and doesnt have the time to really look into it, but he is a tad curious at to what he is.

He also comes off as more extraverted and likes people. I am sure he is IS.

I can provide more info. Suffice to say he likes to get work done, and works actively, but is very flexible and adaptable to changing things.
He has 2 sides to him. One minute he can seem very ISTP and then look like an ISFJ. Depending on the moment and how vulnerable and trusting he feels.

He also has a well developed feeling side to him. He can test as a F and as T,depends on the moment. He is people oriented and likes being in service and knowing he helped someone, but hes also very logical and is objective in decision making. What throws me off is he mentioned that he is a heart person, as well as a head person, and he could make decisions considering its effect on others, and he has strong feelings for people hes close to that he doesnt show easily. Hes also not outwardly critical and likes to please people. So I can see both.

Its prob obvious, just not to me. What are the defining dif between the 2, in behavior, like what one can have and not the other. Thank you!

 

[Snow Turtle]

First Impressions: ISFJ with developped Ti.
Most of what you have described seem to be more of an ISFJ thing who has adapted to society.

What about him appears P specifically?

 

[yupyupyup]

I would go off your own observation of him than what he thinks of himself, because honestly the Sensors that I have asked to identify their type usually get it wrong. They're just not intuitive enough.

 

[oxymoron]

Thanks for the replies. I am still confused. I could -if it will help-give more info, arguing the sides for ISFJ and ISTP.

However, my question is -what are the defining differences to tell them apart In behavior, attitude, mentality, etc.

Kai-His P is shown by Waiting to get enough info and seeing all sides before decision making, being risky with some things, being tolerant and laid back-"any behavior goes"-ex. you are tired while driving? Go blast music in your car even at 12 am. Likes to be spontaneous and improvise. Doesnt like to follow rules, if it will stifle him, take away from creativity or make things less fun, has an independent streak...

 

[Snow Turtle]

Thanks for the replies. I am still confused. I could -if it will help-give more info, arguing the sides for ISFJ and ISTP.

However, my question is -what are the defining differences to tell them apart In behavior, attitude, mentality, etc.

Kai-His P is shown by Waiting to get enough info and seeing all sides before decision making, being risky with some things, being tolerant and laid back-"any behavior goes"-ex. you are tired while driving? Go blast music in your car even at 12 am. Likes to be spontaneous and improvise. Doesnt like to follow rules, if it will stifle him, take away from creativity or make things less fun, has an independent streak...

An Si user can collect information to reduce uncertainty and make better informed decisions. In that regard, an ISFJ can be an extremely slow decision maker to ensure that the path is 'correct' and that they can proceed. This is most likely where the whole 'detail-oriented' idea for Si users comes from, the motivation is to check that things are in working order. For that reason, an Si user can be demotivated or stressed out when things are rather chaotic or when the future seems really blurry/uncertain. I'd imagine an ISTP would be able to cope better with uncertainty than an ISXJ. The planning aspect of an ISXJ is motivated by the desire to control the environment and level of uncertainty/risk.

Otherwise alot of the other description seems to suggest that he's not an ISFJ. While ISFJs can be understanding and accommodating, the whole blasting music at 12am in the morning doesn't really sound ISFJs at all. That description sounds more Se based than Si.

Read up the difference between Si and Se. That'll be a clear indicator.
Just goes to show how it's difficult to type someone based on limited data. You can provide some more if you wish xD

 

[Snow Turtle]

Just wondering, have you ever considered he might be an ISFP?

 

[oxymoron]

Thanks Kai.
I have considered ISFP, but in general, his personality-just the way he talks comes on more "strong"-forceful I guess. Its like hes always trying to get a point across. I have looked into it, but he doesnt consider himself particularly artistic and he tolerates conflict quite well. Infact-he thinks its a neccesary part of life! The other reason is that he claims to be thick skinned-he says that words dont bother him. To him-they are just words, and takes critiscm in stride. Hes also a tad skeptical of new people.

He fits he ISTP profile to a "T" pretty much.
He is objective, answers questions with more questions, doesnt like to talk about himself in any way, likes fun and action, in a job he is a troubleshooter and electrician, and great with his hands. Likes heping people in a physical way. Hes private and restrained about his feelings, and he will antagonize people (who he dsnt have a connection to)who disagree with his opinions. He is great at his hands, and likes to see the whole picture. He likes to debate. He will see all sides of decision before making one, and analyzes things objectively. Hes nice, respectful and straighfoward. Hes not introspective-perfers to understand the world around him. He doesnt need communication-to him, people feel the same way he feels about them. He has keen observational powers, and a great understanding of how things work. When asked if he is more emotional or logical, he didnt understand the meaning, and said hes a techie-detail oriented-guy. He is skeptical of new ideas, until they are proven. He doesnt try to understand his feelings..he just feels them and moves on. Sometimes not as perceptive to others feelings as he shuld be, and doesnt realize why people get angry at him.

The reason I am considering ISFJ, is because, in his vulnerable moments he comes across as one...more understanding, less active, more grounded, and even more romantic and "cutesy". Also, he tends to force help on people he cares about and is stubborn on having them accept the help. He will even tell them he cares-but any expression of emotion looks awkard on him but he will do it. He will do it for a relationship and will go thru lengths to make his partner happy. He will basically put all the say and decision making into her hands, and go for the ride. He will let her do what she wants, even if its embarrasing, to make her happy. He gets the job done. Very loyal and commited. dutiful. good listener. tries not to hurt peoples feelings that he is close to.He is understanding at times, and can even express compassion for people he is close to, if its the right moment. He helps a lot, but tries not to be taken advantage of and stands up for himself. He can also come off as serious at times. He doesnt like to say no and volunteers. He has a hard time sharing himself a lot..He likes to work first and play later. Doesnt seem to need much in relationships, physically or emotionally. Loves kids.

What really mixes me up is the fact that when I tested him on the "do what you are book", he answered-He
Consider effects on actions on others -and not- apply impersonal analysis to probs
he Values empathy and harmony, see exception to the rule vs. value logic justice and fairness, one standard for all
he naturally likes to please other, show appreciation vs. naturally see flaws and is criticals
Is important to be tactful as well as truthful, and not just being truthful


And the fact that he acknowledges that he has a feeling side, he is in his heart for people he is close to and that he cares about people, and he is comfortable with that part of himself. Im not sure how much that is for ISTPs. However, Im just not sure how in touch with it he really is and how much he really knows himself. thats whats confusing.

He is male, so that really throws me off. Ive heard that male ISFJs can act supermacho and suppress their natural behavior. Thats why im confused.

 

[Snow Turtle]

I'll be honest. I'm rather confused myself. xD

He does seem rather ISTPish with an upbringing that favours harmony. Guess it'd depend on what sort of background he came from.

If you're wondering if he is ISFJ. What is he like? Does he think about the past often and how focused on discussing the topic of friendship/romance is he? Lastly what sort of person is he when he's in a negative state?

 

[oxymoron]

Hi! Id want to reply but Im away on Easter vacation for a few days and have to catch a flight...look out for me in 2 days
His background...Mom is very emotional, (enfp) and supportive of him. He is close to her. Dad-very logical and unemotionless-istj (didnt understand how dad didnt cry by his grandmas funeral). He identifies somewhere in between.

Will be back with more info...

 

[oxymoron]

Im back!
About his upbringing-got kicked out of Jr high school since he didnt want to conform to the rules, wanted to do his own thing. Had a hard time growing up, and got therapy at some point which opened up his feeling side more. But stopped therapy so closed it up again to a point. Family does foster harmony, togetherness-he is close to them, esp his mom since she nutures him, and he trusts them.

Hes my ex actually, but now wer are just "good friends" lol.

Kai, good q's., to answer:

What is he like? He comes across as content, even tempered, "dont worry be happy" it will all work out. When he helps, its more in a "I want to fix things for you, I want to make it good for you" type of way, not as much "I care about you, I feel for you". He loves to learn new things and is skeptical of new ideas. Very resistant of others trying to change his lifestyle or forcing him into somewhere he is not. Loves independence. Comes off as straightfoward, a little direct, sometimes even tough-I wouldnt call him refined. He is always concerned that everything should be "good" with his loved ones though. If he has a relationship that needs outside help, he will do whatever he can, to compulsively asking what he can do to help, trying to get out the issues from his SO, and then going thru them one by one and looking for solutions, and will even go to a counselor -"you need me to come with you?" He takes criticism relatively well, and doesnt get offended unless someone insults his intelligence or competency. He knows when he is taken advantage of, picks up on that really fast. Has strong opinions and will express them forcefully, even with strangers, if they dont agree-he needs them to see his perspective. His #1 things are respect, trustworthiness and being a problem solver to others. He is realtively easygoing, very tolerant, hardly expresses emotion, and is wary of negative emotions-he identifies himself with positive emotions. He never really talks about himself. When he talks about his loved ones who passed away, he will express sadness, and even mentioned how he was almost crying at a close friends funeral-that was the only time he expressed some more "negative" feeling. He does respect when people show feelings. At some points he may get sentimental if i give a compliment -"Awww thats so sweet, awww im gonna cry" in a more "acting" type way. Once he even accused me of being more logical! Hed rather break rules than follow them, and do his "own thing". Likes to try a new approach to things, likes a variety and to innovate.

He is not a past person. Hardly remembers any experiences from there unless they really stuck out. He is probably mostly in the present, with a bit minded on the future. Not in terms of planning for it securitywise, just curious what will happen in the future. But mostly he is present/in the moment minded- "lets take things as they come."

He may make romance type statements "aww youre so beautiful, oh-we dont need that, you alone make me happy" in a more of a lighthearted way, but never discusses romance or friendship with anyone, in a serious way. He usually talks about how he trusts his friends, they push his buttons, and he likes to kid with them, and banter around. He also would do anything to help friends that are close to him, and he wants them to respect and see him as trustworthy. But he'd never discuss the "relationship" unless he wants to see thats going in the way he wants it to/the way it should.

When hes negative, usually complains about how stupid people are, incompetent, they dont appreciate what he does, etc. Or he drives like a maniac and acts super macho. When really negative, hed get super sensitive, and paranoid about everyones intentions and thinks people dont need him.

The way he answered the qs as I posted above-in the more feeling way-and the way he will express care for others and help, and that he thinks he is emotional-is what is leading me to feeler. I can answer any more qs...hope this helps!!

 

[Snow Turtle]

It's OK.
He sounds like an ISTP to me from that description. The 'feeling' vibe you get from him is generated from the fact that he sees values in harmony and feelings. Best of both world really.

ISTPs like INTPs can be extremely emotion. In fact there used to be old discussions about how these ITPs acted more emotional than their IFJ peers especially when it came to outbursts of emotions. Some will say that an IXFJ (at least this is true for me) that their feelings come across as 'controlled' as it's gone through alot of processing. I don't know about other FJs but I've been described as extremely stotic despite being harmony based.

"When really negative, hed get super sensitive, and paranoid about everyones intentions and thinks people dont need him."

This is something I identify with. But I don't really identify with the whole 'calling other people incomptent', we're more known to shouldering the blame for failure and feeling inadaquete about ourselves. One of the biggest problem an IFJ might deal with is perfectionism and not living up to their ideals, in that sense they can be prone to alot of self-hatred.

 

[oxymoron]

Thanks Kai! So it sounds as if hes is a well developed ISTP. Thats what I thought. When I read the ISTP description, it did resonate with me for him in many ways, except that he probably developed inferior feeling pretty well.

I also heard that under lots of stress, we go to our shadow functions, which for him is ENFJ, which I am guessing, can be him feeling super sensitive, unappreciated and needy. I am also guessing that since he is naturally, out of touch with his feelings and its unfamilar, he may have a hard times differentiating between what he thinks he is in that area(what he says about himself), vs. what he really is (what the world around him sees).

Seems like ISTPs are great guys