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  1. #11
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    Here's my understanding from my study of the MBTI and from my own personal experience.

    As an Introvert I'm forced to work as an E when engaging with other people. In group situations I'm sure that I behave as an ENTP and come across as quite likeable and gregarious. However when left to my own ends I will default to INTJ which is a lot less pleasant for third parties.

    I managed to develop my Extrovert personality, mainly in a work environment, very well. However Extroverts do not have the same pressure or necessity to develop their introvert side.

    I would expect most Introverts to have a well developed Extrovert side but that many extroverts do not develop their introvert side quite so well and may appear shallow.

  2. #12
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    It's very possible for an introvert who became more focus on the external world to resemble an E... at least temporary. Using the auxillary function more would make an INTP seem more like an ENTP. Although in my case I tend to prefer Ne over Fe when forcing myself to notice my surroundings. I've never been that strong of a J though, so perhaps your pattern can still hold true. At least for people who aren't borderline...
    Not sure about boarderline but in regard to the INTP - ENTP thing, would you not expect an INTP to move to ENTJ not only to be more extroverted but to get whatever it is organised and sorted to so that people may continue without further incident, an ENTJ trait, so that they may return to their introversion?
    Quote Originally Posted by red13 View Post
    Here's my understanding from my study of the MBTI and from my own personal experience.

    As an Introvert I'm forced to work as an E when engaging with other people. In group situations I'm sure that I behave as an ENTP and come across as quite likeable and gregarious. However when left to my own ends I will default to INTJ which is a lot less pleasant for third parties.

    I managed to develop my Extrovert personality, mainly in a work environment, very well. However Extroverts do not have the same pressure or necessity to develop their introvert side.

    I would expect most Introverts to have a well developed Extrovert side but that many extroverts do not develop their introvert side quite so well and may appear shallow.
    Would you say that were you to develop your ENTP side so that it's strength begins to rival your INTJ side?

    I realise that in general it is beneficial to increase the strength of all facets of a personality but in terms of this one specific path do you see it as more beneficial than other paths?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Would you say that were you to develop your ENTP side so that it's strength begins to rival your INTJ side?

    I realise that in general it is beneficial to increase the strength of all facets of a personality but in terms of this one specific path do you see it as more beneficial than other paths?
    My ENTP side was very well developed when I came across the MBTI, eight years ago. In order to further my professional career I developed my interpersonal skills, empathy etc. When I tested as an INTJ I was convinced it was wrong and that I was really ENTP. At that time a large part of my work was teaching very technical skills to groups of professionals (mostly INxx), this required me to work in an extrovert mode most of the time. People never believed me when I told them that I was really very anti-social!

    As I've got older, and I no longer lecture either, I've reverted more to INTJ although I suspect most people that I deal with would not guess that I'm an INTJ through my professional behaviour.

    I think a danger of typing ,such as the MBTI, is that you may more happily fall into what's comfortable i.e. typical INTJ. Personally I think it's very important for an INTJ to work on their outgoing/external side. An ENTP is probably a lot friendlier than an INTJ, so it's a good side to show in public.

    I'm not too bothered about developing my sensing side, although my ISTJ wife thinks I should.

  4. #14
    Resident Snot-Nose GZA's Avatar
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    I personally don't think that talking to people makes you switch to "E". I don't see how that works at all, really... when I talk to people I'm still very much inward focused and its almost like translating. I can still talk and communicate very well and I see that a lot of people enjoy talking to me.

    I know that everyone has the potential to use any function but that some are very difficult and energy consuming to use, and are not prefered functions, but I don't see how that makes you switch from, in my case, INFP to ENFP. I'm still INFP and I'm still acting like one, I'm just communicating with other people. The individual functions themselves only go so far, because really it seems that its the combination of the functions that defines the personalities rather than the specific functions. I don't really beleive you can naturally slip into another whole personality... even if you may seem to be doing so. For example, even if I was to use, say, sensing and thinking simaultaniously, I'd still be an INFP while doing that because I'd merely be focusing on those functions, but I'd still be and INFP and I'd still being thinking how thought comes naturally to me as an INFP.

  5. #15
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Not sure about boarderline but in regard to the INTP - ENTP thing, would you not expect an INTP to move to ENTJ not only to be more extroverted but to get whatever it is organised and sorted to so that people may continue without further incident, an ENTJ trait, so that they may return to their introversion?
    That part is what I'm puzzling over...

    Why is it INTP -> ENTJ and INTJ -> ENTP

    It works in my case going from INFJ -> ENXP but why?

    If it's just I to E... All you need to do is switch your dominant and auxillary functions. But if it is IJ -> EP and IP -> EJ You're involving shadows... I would have thought it'll be easier to use auxillary more in order to extrovert.

  6. #16
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post

    Now if I remember rightly you are an INTJ are you not?
    (memory being one of those things I've not found any way to get better at yet )
    yes. INTJ.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkPiranha View Post
    I've been mistaken by others for an ENTJ, INFJ, INTJ and (by other Sensers) ESTP. Very schizophrenic, but I can't explain it any better.

    This just reinforces the feeling that my ENFJ isn't really a personality and is more like a catch-all drawer for weird free-ranging traits. Some of them don't even seem to go together!

    My ENTJ sister often gets mistaken for being ENFJ. I think because she learned coping skills from our ENFP mother.

    According to my sister she is always most immediately attracted to INTP/ENTP males and most of her female friends are INTJs/INFJs/ENTJs. I guess it's some brain chemistry that she immediately clicks with.

    I think it's best to analyze personality on a spectrum- rather than being finite. Most people who have developed their full range tend to vacillate between I/E F/T J/P imho anyway.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Dansker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Right, an INTP who is forced to sort something out will engage parts of their shadow. It seems to me that in such a situation an INTPs thinking will closely match that of an ENTJ (if they can handle the situation).
    Interesting.

    I am an INTP, however I imagine there are times when I appear quite ENTJ. At work I am expected to think on my feet, provide direction to and guide resources, make quick decisions, facilitate workshops with a moments notice to cost and size new initiatives that the company may want to undertake, have answers ready regarding everything and anything that I may be asked, pull rabbits out of a hat and make something out of nothing on a daily basis, all while appearing totally in control and confident.

    My ability to to most of this is not my preferred way to operate, but I can do it and feel comfortable given that I feel very competent in my role.

    Sometimes if it feels exhilarating, but most times it feels exhausting. I can't wait to get home, relax and recharge.

    Ah, the life of a consultant.

  9. #19
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by red13 View Post
    People never believed me when I told them that I was really very anti-social!
    Quote Originally Posted by red13 View Post
    I'm not too bothered about developing my sensing side, although my ISTJ wife thinks I should.
    These two sentences when put back to back definitely make you an INTJ
    (Sorry that just struck me as funny)
    Quote Originally Posted by red13 View Post
    I think a danger of typing ,such as the MBTI, is that you may more happily fall into what's comfortable i.e. typical INTJ.
    Exactly which is why I think that more attention needs to be paid to paths of development.
    Quote Originally Posted by red13 View Post
    Personally I think it's very important for an INTJ to work on their outgoing/external side. An ENTP is probably a lot friendlier than an INTJ, so it's a good side to show in public.
    Strangely though you'd have to have been an ENTP to notice that though. Mind you from my point of view there's little funnier than sitting and listening to my INTJ friend give his critique on the world as it passes by. I'm sorry but that much bile put into such succinct and cutting sarcasm is just plain funny
    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I personally don't think that talking to people makes you switch to "E". I don't see how that works at all, really... when I talk to people I'm still very much inward focused and its almost like translating. I can still talk and communicate very well and I see that a lot of people enjoy talking to me.
    Talking to people doesn't particularly do it but giving energy, broadcasting, does. Anyone can talk but to extrovert is to deliberately offer a connection, to extend toward the person some kind of interaction as opposed to waiting for others to do so and being all input and no output.
    Quote Originally Posted by GZA View Post
    I know that everyone has the potential to use any function but that some are very difficult and energy consuming to use, and are not prefered functions, but I don't see how that makes you switch from, in my case, INFP to ENFP. I'm still INFP and I'm still acting like one, I'm just communicating with other people. The individual functions themselves only go so far, because really it seems that its the combination of the functions that defines the personalities rather than the specific functions. I don't really beleive you can naturally slip into another whole personality... even if you may seem to be doing so. For example, even if I was to use, say, sensing and thinking simaultaniously, I'd still be an INFP while doing that because I'd merely be focusing on those functions, but I'd still be and INFP and I'd still being thinking how thought comes naturally to me as an INFP.
    That much is true. No matter what I am still an INTP. Even when acting in an ENTJ manner I still am an INTP and can be seen to be an INTP but were you to be challenged to decide which was an INTP manifesting ENTJ and which was an ENTJ manifesting INTP you may be hard pressed to find the answer. It's more about moving yourself to the border than crossing over completely (the border between E and I for example).
    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    That part is what I'm puzzling over...

    Why is it INTP -> ENTJ and INTJ -> ENTP

    It works in my case going from INFJ -> ENXP but why?

    If it's just I to E... All you need to do is switch your dominant and auxillary functions. But if it is IJ -> EP and IP -> EJ You're involving shadows... I would have thought it'll be easier to use auxillary more in order to extrovert.
    Good question. The honest answer is I don't know. All I know is that I'm rarely ENTP. Sure I can extrovert but I'm still doing INTP when I'm doing it. I only slip into ENTJ when organising and ESFJ is still a lowly position in the list of mind sets which I utilise. It tends to form more my motivation than my actualisation.

    Anyhow, in function terms an IP is the same as an EJ. If I were to flip from IP to EP then not only would I be changing the functions to extroverted but I would also be altering what order they were prioritised in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    yes. INTJ.
    Reputation points for you. Very INTJ
    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    My ENTJ sister often gets mistaken for being ENFJ. I think because she learned coping skills from our ENFP mother.
    ENTJ and ENFJ share a lot in common.

    I think that it depends mostly on peoples preconceptions about the type and a general ignorance to positive and negative influences. A negative ENFJ can seem to be an ENTJ and vice versa. It's a common mistake in typing.
    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    According to my sister she is always most immediately attracted to INTP/ENTP males and most of her female friends are INTJs/INFJs/ENTJs. I guess it's some brain chemistry that she immediately clicks with.
    Now that's odd. My father is an ENTJ and he seems to dislike ENTPs universally (he's not prone to being so prejudiced normally) and he found me quite tiring when I was younger though one of his main advisors is an INTP. Not that he ever thinks to ask me the great gallute!
    Quote Originally Posted by hotmale View Post
    I think it's best to analyze personality on a spectrum- rather than being finite. Most people who have developed their full range tend to vacillate between I/E F/T J/P imho anyway.
    The facets of a person are always shades of grey but types are always absolutes. If not then how can you move forward?

    If what you see cannot be called an orange but has to be described as being most like the common conception of fruit and is kind of a warm yellow in colour with dimpled skin ....etc then firstly it'd take you ages and secondly nothing would ever be achieved because your bound to find the one person who goes "huh?".

    I agree that no one is 100% one thing and 0% another. That's artificial but when it comes to typing it's best to think as if it is and then complicate things when necessary rather than to start from that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dansker View Post
    Interesting.

    I am an INTP, however I imagine there are times when I appear quite ENTJ. At work I am expected to think on my feet, provide direction to and guide resources, make quick decisions, facilitate workshops with a moments notice to cost and size new initiatives that the company may want to undertake, have answers ready regarding everything and anything that I may be asked, pull rabbits out of a hat and make something out of nothing on a daily basis, all while appearing totally in control and confident.

    My ability to to most of this is not my preferred way to operate, but I can do it and feel comfortable given that I feel very competent in my role.

    Sometimes if it feels exhilarating, but most times it feels exhausting. I can't wait to get home, relax and recharge.

    Ah, the life of a consultant.
    Ooo the model works for you too???

    I concur that it's tiring. One thing though, do you find that you have a need to engage the ole ENTJ mind though? I find that I almost have to switch between (though that could be more environmental now I think about it )
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #20
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    What type is Christian Bale? Or at least the character he is portraying in Xanders avy? What movie is that anyway?

    I know ENTP's are said to be matched well with INFJ's but I just can't see myself married to one.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

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