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your mbti type does not change!

INTP

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sticky this topic so people can stop talking about how their or someone else's type changed just because they cant type themselves right

INTJ Information

Does your Type change?

Short answer — no.

According to Jung’s theory, our cognitive process preference is innate, somewhat like handedness. However, there are many factors that affect this preference. Dr. Linda Berens explains it thus:


“In the very beginning was our Core Self-the self we were intended to be, the self that is in our Genes, our DNA. (Of course we can never really know what that is for sure until we have more research supporting a DNA basis!). But as we interacted with the environment, we developed an Adapted Self that may be either more or less consistent with the True Self. We also have a Contextual Self (or Selves) that represents our current behavior. It, too, might be in sync with our Core Selves or it may be quite different. That depends on what the situation at the time requires.” (Excerpted from Validating Type: What is True Type Anyway?)

What this means is that our preference for certain Jungian cognitive processes is innate — our “Core Self”. So all INTJs, at their core, prefer Ni, then Te, then Fi, then Se.

However, over time, we may become influenced by family, friends, community, school, etc., causing us to adapt to the use of less-preferred processes. For example, an INTJ raised by ISTJ parents in an ISTJ community might develop an adapted use of Si. In my own case, I’ve been a corporate trainer for over 30 years and I’ve adapted to using Fe in order to connect more effectively with my students.

The contextual use of less-preferred processes arises based on the needs of the immediate environment. For example, when driving my car in an unfamiliar area, I might draw upon Se to be more alert to road signs and traffic conditions. When engaged in a brainstorming session at work, I might use Ne more that usual. You get the idea…

Another factor that affects our cognitive process use is age. As theorized by Jung, and supported by Dr. Harold Grant’s research, we develop more proficiency with our less-preferred processes as we age. This development can make it seem like our type is changing, but all that’s happening is that we’re getting better at handling other processes. This change in proficiency is often reflected in type assessments, like the MBTI, which is one reason why I rarely use them professionally.

Supposedly, we become reasonably well-balanced in our use of the four conscious processes by about age 50, and spend the rest of our lives getting in touch with the other four “Shadow” processes. Jung called this process “individuation” and said it was the highest goal of human psychological development.

Regardless of all this growth and development, an INTJ will always be an INTJ inside — will always have a preference for Ni, then Te, etc. But there will be a sense of change, noticed both within and by others — that’s one of the fascinating things about studying the human psyche — it’s so dynamic!

So I guess that’s a long-winded way of saying that your type does not change over time — but the way you use your cognitive processes does.
 
P

Phantonym

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So I guess that’s a long-winded way of saying that your type does not change over time — but the way you use your cognitive processes does.

Ok, but how can you really be sure what your type is then? Where is this "the very beginning" and how can we be sure that it really is the beginning? The preference use changes. The tests are not really helping, the descriptions neither, as the cognitive process with what you currently associate with and consider your dominant function might be just in the middle of "the change".
 

Night

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Eh.

The research data seems spotty and self-referential. Specifically, the link between DNA and MBTI. Say, what? Oh, and the interior hyperlink is dead. Not that you can prevent that, but it depreciates credibility. I don't see any attempts to falsify premise, either.


Not a very convincing account. Not by a long shot.
 

INTP

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Ok, but how can you really be sure what your type is then? Where is this "the very beginning" and how can we be sure that it really is the beginning? The preference use changes. The tests are not really helping, the descriptions neither, as the cognitive process with what you currently associate with and consider your dominant function might be just in the middle of "the change".

you can be sure about your type if you learn about yourself and mbti enough.
 

INTP

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Eh.

The research data seems spotty and self-referential. Specifically, the link between DNA and MBTI. Say, what? Oh, and the interior hyperlink is dead. Not that you can prevent that, but it depreciates credibility. I don't see any attempts to falsify premise, either.


Not a very convincing account. Not by a long shot.

lol @ you for questioning the basics of mbti

search the internet yourself if you want. every mbti professional says the same, this was just one site i decided to use.

personally i wouldnt be so sure about the dna and mbti thing. But since dna tells how other parts of your body are built, why wouldnt it say how your brains are built too?
 

Night

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lol @ you for questioning the basics of mbti

search the internet yourself if you want. every mbti professional says the same, this was just one site i decided to use.

personally i wouldnt be so sure about the dna and mbti thing. But since dna tells how other parts of your body are built, why wouldnt it say how your brains are built too?

5 stars!

I like your inductive hypothesis at the end. I'd go with it. Dedicate yourself, INTP. Dedicate yourself.
 

Totenkindly

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you can be sure about your type if you learn about yourself and mbti enough.

Can you?

The first time you did your MBTI, you thought you were right.

So how do you know this time, when you REALLY think you're right, that you're not similarly mistaken?
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
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Can you?

The first time you did your MBTI, you thought you were right.

So how do you know this time, when you REALLY think you're right, that you're not similarly mistaken?

Yeah! The first time I was really sure.
But the second time was for realz.
The third time I took it SRSLY. :laugh:
 

sculpting

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emmmm. I like your brown sheep. I want to cuddle him and kiss his nose. He is cuuuuute. bbbbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa......................

I buy that their are innate types-maybe 16 even. Maybe there is a perfect ideal functional order associated with each of the 16 types even-a "healthiest" form.

But that is so malleable over time, throughout development, and modifiable due to social pressure-I dont expect that it is fully descriptive of the complexity that you will see in the world. People come in lots of flavors all blended together like smoothies.

Also-I would be interested in understanding how susceptible different types are to external pressure. Ie-an Ne-dom is an incredibly malleable flexible creature while I suspect an Si dom might not be-thus the Ne-doms would be more influenced by the above concerns.

(can I bury my toes in your sheep?)
 

INTP

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Can you?

The first time you did your MBTI, you thought you were right.

So how do you know this time, when you REALLY think you're right, that you're not similarly mistaken?

first time i tested(and many times after) i had intj result, its pretty close to intp so thats no wonder than mbti newbie might think that its true. not to mention that i didnt read about mbti other than intj profile for about half a year after i first took the test. i didnt determine my (intp)type by tests, but learning more about mbti and myself. i dont think i had intp from any test before i knew im an intp.
i have learned now enough how i function and how different functions work, so i can be sure that im an intp instead of intj or something else
 

Polaris

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In the very beginning was our Core Self-the self we were intended to be, the self that is in our Genes, our DNA.
A blob of chemicals floating around in your mother's womb does not have a personality. Your personality is your ego, and most people do not develop one until about the age of two. If we identify ourselves with a clump of DNA that preexists those memories, we're engaging in the same kind of fancy that leads a child to wonder what it's like to be an ant.

It's true that an embryo's DNA can, with a greater or lesser degree of certainty, outline a future for it; someone with the genes for autism, for instance, will most likely behave in a manner consistent with their condition. But until the person is actually born, their personality is just a hypothesis; for all anyone knows, extraordinary circumstances could make the child a normal human being.

The only "core self" possessed by DNA is a prediction awaiting its confirmation. This prediction belongs to an external observer whose ego serves as the DNA-concept's home. This DNA-concept is a piece of mental real estate acquired through textbooks and research, and if the observer seeks himself at the bottom of it all, whether through memory or science, he seems to be peering into an endless abyss.
 
G

garbage

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lol @ you for questioning the basics of mbti

I mean, someone built a pretty nice house on a pillar of sand. It looks elegant enough, but it's unstable.


Your bolded statement says it all--there's no DNA basis yet.
 
G

garbage

Guest
I'd like to get ahold of this Dr. Harold Grant's research, but I can't seem to find it. All I've found is a book tying the Bible to the functions and a bunch of self-referential blogs. Any pointers?

I mean, it'd be nice to see how rigorous the research actually is.. and if there is any good research support for the OP's claim, it would probably answer a lot of questions that end up coming up on the forums.
 

adambrown

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My name is Adam Brown. The Netherlands. 26 years old. Currently finishing my master degree in Pscyhology. Fascinated by human potential.

Change is pretty easy, even changing deeply rooted patterns is doable and it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. Jung theory's presumes a basis that cognitive process preference is innate. Don't crystallize it, he might have changed his opinion with the in genius tools that are available today.

Listen carefully, for what follows is a sacred truth: Change occurs rapidly when past forms are discarded. Instead of trying to patch up and repair the rotting church of your assigned identity, simply… leave. Leave the safe confines; ignore the warnings of the preacher that is your superego; go and explore. Your soul is beautiful and diverse. Have you taken the time to appreciate its full beauty?

If we would look at change 'tools', we find a whole range of tools that allow one to change and to grow. (I am taking core change) Below some interesting onces I used( some of these tools are to be used in combination)

- Deep Trance Identification ( Hypnosis )

- Time line therapy

- General manipulation of ‘Consciousness’

- Neo-Reichian psychotherapy ( etc.. )

- Controlled psychedelic and dissociative drug use

Experiments on myself:

- General manipulation of ‘Consciousness’ . I developed my intuition (Auxiliary) and 'anchored' myself into that, this instead of my previous sensing side. I am still Dominant extroverted thinking. Tests have shown that my Intuitive side is currently better developed then my sensing side.


Experiments on a friend:

- Tested as ISFP ( tested 2x and one time through an MBTI® Master Practitioner )

- Used the first 4 tools above. Changed from ISFP to ENTJ in 2 years. My friend is running his own company at the moment with 60 +/- employees.

- Currently tested ENTJ ( tested 2x and one time through an MBTI® Master Practitioner)
 

Limit

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My name is Adam Brown. The Netherlands. 26 years old. Currently finishing my master degree in Pscyhology. Fascinated by human potential.

Change is pretty easy, even changing deeply rooted patterns is doable and it can be done in a reasonable amount of time. Jung theory's presumes a basis that cognitive process preference is innate. Don't crystallize it, he might have changed his opinion with the in genius tools that are available today.

No he didn't.

*facepalm*
 

adambrown

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lol @ you for not.

Great attitude Jaguar! MBTI actually, is not so well researched as is likely claimed. In psychology, it is recognized as a very limited, but semiuseful tool. The reason is that MBTIs have shown to be fluctuating and therefore only be a temporary snapshot of what might be called personality.

Since personality itself is defined as "characteristics which are stable over time" the MBTI has been shown to not qualify as a real personality test. Often we overlook certain smaller parts that just do not fit all because of a bias function. You can give such a text to a whole class and all of them will be surprised, how everyone thinks that is describes him.


For all those, that want a rather timestable test :

http://www.outofservice.com/bigfive/

Big Five of Personality.
 
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