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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Though MBTI is not directly proportional to IQ, it has been shown on record that, as a general trend, NT types tend to score higher on such intelligence tests, but keep in mind though that this is just a common pattern and not a strict rule.

    Personally I think of myself as NT (feel free folks if you so please to voice to me your criticisms should you disagree), though my IQ is a very unimpressive 114 (it was however genius in some fields like for language and geometry but below average in other fields such as processing and memorization).

    So Poki I am wondering what led you to conclude that these NTs were not smart and that you were not one of them.
    They seemed to go about things backwards which doesnt lead me to believe they were not smart, but lead me to believe I am not one. The smart had to do with the fact that they seemed to hold theory above all else...all else would be reality They just dont impress me much considering they test as "Intelligent". They are good at somethings and bad at others. I am also very different in person then INTPs.

    I dont hold much value in IQ tests and IQ scores in regard to corrolation to smart.
    Im out, its been fun

  2. #72
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I think the standard MBTI tests are pretty much a "best guess." The reasons for changes are numerous.

    For me, the most surprising change is E to I or vice versa: it's usually really easy to tell whether one is introverted or extroverted. Also, it really doesn't make a difference which it is, especially if it's close to balanced.
    Agreed and if a change occurs, it's nearly always due to changing life situations for people. Most people dont get the difference between mbti extroversion and social extroversion.

    Similarly for J/P, as long as you don't score near the middle, it's fairly solid and unchangeable.
    I tended to agree, but since I have been working for 2 years now in SJ central, I've to say a p can change; but not without great costs.

    T/F is fairly easy to switch, because people think "F" means "emotional" and "T" means "intellectual." Also, it's fairly easily affected by a time of crisis: some times in our lives, we abandon are natural inclination, because we feel betrayed by it, and throw ourselves into the other. I've seen many reluctant Fs become INTJ after realizing "but I have FEELINGS" doesn't say anything about how you process feelings, and reluctant Ts become INFJ after realizing that for most matters, they judge things subjectively and personally, even though they're extremely smart and inclined toward math/computers/science.
    Yes !

    N/S is mostly inscrutable. It's a concept you either "get" or you don't.
    Yes, as well !

    -----------

    I've changed to every NF or NT type by now but always came back to entp. So thats a statement as well
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  3. #73
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post

    N/S is mostly inscrutable. It's a concept you either "get" or you don't.
    What happens when you understand the concept, but struggle to apply it to yourself?

    I would say I believe myself to understand the idea of N/S fairly well, (of course feel free to correct me on this), in that being Intuitive seems as if the individual would very often feel like they swim in a different sea, a world they might think is not meant for them..they can grasp it in concept, but not in drive or action as their motivation is not of those around them. In many ways both definitions of Ne and Ni put me in mind of having the answers to the test before it arrives and having the key to unlock a door that isn't there....at least not yet.

    On the other hand then Sensing lives in a world that is perhaps more suited to them, but not insofar as it makes life any easier, merely that, (if MBTI statistics are to be believed), they are a majority and so it obviously follows that the majority has more of a vote in the world around it. This being a world that is almost taken as a priori of the senses; they say that reality must be so, so reality is.

    Yet despite this, I find that there are subtleties to many set N/S definitions that throw off my own understandings, maybe I over complicate my inferior thinking, (after all im assuredly a feeler and all the more aware of my chagrin towards this), and instead see everything in a specific that does not, in fact, exist.

    In writing I could appear quite Intuitive, but in speech and behaviour I easily appear sensory. Of course neither is an indication of internalised cognition, but both stand as an indication of result from cognition, not to mention that my opinion of what constitutes appearing Sensory or Intuitive is completely individual to me and thus I already know that I cannot use such erroneous information and of course capabilities are out of the question. Not that I would appeal to someones type based on this evidence, but cognitive functions are elusive enough as it is, unless there is some objective definition by which each one of the 8 can be classified.

    I suppose the key question is the motive.

    Or maybe I need to go back to reading the books again and reassessing my knowledge and understanding, which clearly is not up to scratch.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    I'd blame the tests. The questions they ask don't really get to the nature of introversion vs extroversion, instead reverting to the common modern definition instead of the (original) Jungian definition. (He coined the terms.)




    I judge introversion vs extroversion based on whether I see a person following the "look before you leap" or the "he who hesitates is lost" maxims. Introverts always look first. They need to watch and listen and understand, and THEN they'll eventually get around to doing something. Extroverts focus on doing things, and reflection comes later on (often when things didn't work out).

    When extroverts are Fe or Se doms, this mostly correlates to the popular definition of extroversion, and when introverts are Ne or Te auxiliary, they too are usually a good example of the popular definition of introversion.

    Switch these around, and the definitions don't quite correlate any more. Ne and Te doms are not, strictly speaking, social, and Se and Fe aux, while quiet, are usually quite social. All four extroverted functions focus on chasing after certain things in the external world. Fe focuses on relationships with others. Se focuses on sensation, which often involves being with other people. Te, however, focuses on accomplishing "things", not "people." Te doms can be social, but they often aren't very much so outside of a business or work context: people are part of getting the task done, not an end in themselves. Ne chases after ideas, not people or things or sensations, so Ne doms can appear to be the most introverted of the extroverts. But Te doms and Ne doms are still extroverted in the Jungian sense, even when not in the usual social sense: they're acting first, Te doing things then reflecting upon what has been done, and Ne chasing after ideas, only to later refine and reflect upon them.

    IN the INTJ/ENTP case, it's especially easy for the ENTP to mistype as INTJ, especially if one is particularly nerdy and technical and is actually competent at what one does. Also, ENTPs don't have the typical INTP lack of confidence about their ideas. They'll still hem and haw a bit in the logical Ti way that INTPs do, but when push comes to shove, they more readily get excited about the possibilities of a new idea than an INTP does, and thus can seem very much like INTJs in terms of this aura of confidence.
    This was an EXCELLENT post, thank you. Not many people can explain MBTI theory in such a comprehensive yet concise way.

    This gives a good explanation of my own troubles typing myself. I find INTP's often very frustrating online because everything is Ti dissected. I only do that when I storngly feel that someone needs or deserves a Ti explanation, otherwise I prefer to just jump from idea to idea.

    I did mistype as INTJ for some time, but I am now aware it was a ridiculous self-delusion. I am compeltely disorganized by nature, and even when I tried hard to be organized like the J's I know it made me stressed and unhappy, because I would always miss something, at the expense of sacrificing my creativity, and essentially jsut appear to be a low-functioning J. I also don't have that Fi sensitivty which an INTJ has, but I do have the Fe harmony-seeking which means I naturally feel other people's reactions to me, which INTJ's appear not to have at all.

    However, ONLINE, I was often mistyped as an INTJ even by others, because I can hold an iea very clearly, dismiss other views, and defend it logically, unemotionally, but "succinctly" in a way which INTP's rarely do, and also with an acidic humour.

    For this reason, I think ENTP's are often mistyoed as INTJ's due to online opinions...and I am worried that actually it may harm these people's own self-development, as your self-expectation as a self-typed "intj" are very hard for to live up to if one is actually a mistyped entp.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Morto Che Parla View Post
    lol...sems very ENTPish to go between various types...I've done it myself.

    My definition: if you believe you could actually be ANY type and hate to limit yourself to one...then you are in fact ENTP
    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I've changed to every NF or NT type by now but always came back to entp. So thats a statement as well
    I rest my case.

  6. #76
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    I saw an ISFP on the other forum recently swap his type to INTJ. Silly decision. The logic he used in an argument we once had was far too flawed to be one of his preferred functions. I have also seen a few users change their type every other week (literally) before settling on untyped. Take the crappy online tests and the cognitive function tests at least 5-10 times (if you can at different times of day in different moods) and compare the results. Me thinks a few people take the test only a small handful of times - scoring their originally identified type on all but their last attempt but choosing the last attempt to be the correct one.

    Note: I think they should choose different letters than E or I. I have read function introversion/extroversion preference is not always the same as social introversion/extroversion preference. Thus an individual could be Je or Pe dominant function wise but actually be an introvert (extroverted and introverted functions are limited to small, respected areas of the brain whilst social introversion and extroversion is supposedly a difference in length between neural connections uniform across the whole brain.)

  7. #77
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    I went something like this (may mixed E/I for the first 2):

    ISFP - INFP - INTP - ENTP - INTJ - ENTJ

    ISFP period - the ignorance was very enjoyable.
    INFP period - the emotions were really annoying.
    INTP period - the compliance was illogical and frustrating.
    ENTP period - people disliking my thoughts combined with the lack of social interaction of the previous INTP image made it into a really bad situation.
    INTJ period - I liked the organization, more down-to-earth ideas, standing up for myself, etc..
    ENTJ period - I do like the practical approach a lot, and I do like the idea of confrontation. I find it very useful and quite fun.

    ISFP - INFP were before mid-school and a bit of mid-school.
    INTP was mid-school and a little bit of high-school.
    ENTP and INTJ was high-school and a bit after high-school.
    ENTJ since a bit after high-school.

    How's that for a change?

  8. #78
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    I went something like this (may mixed E/I for the first 2):

    ISFP - INFP - INTP - ENTP - INTJ - ENTJ

    ISFP period - the ignorance was very enjoyable.
    INFP period - the emotions were really annoying.
    INTP period - the compliance was illogical and frustrating.
    ENTP period - people disliking my thoughts combined with the lack of social interaction of the previous INTP image made it into a really bad situation.
    INTJ period - I liked the organization, more down-to-earth ideas, standing up for myself, etc..
    ENTJ period - I do like the practical approach a lot, and I do like the idea of confrontation. I find it very useful and quite fun.

    ISFP - INFP were before mid-school and a bit of mid-school.
    INTP was mid-school and a little bit of high-school.
    ENTP and INTJ was high-school and a bit after high-school.
    ENTJ since a bit after high-school.

    How's that for a change?
    So you changed your type and your persona to fit it?

    If so, id say that's not a wise choice. It is better the other way around, or rather that the type should suit you.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    So you changed your type and your persona to fit it?

    If so, id say that's not a wise choice. It is better the other way around, or rather that the type should suit you.
    I'm not sure I know what you mean. Could you elaborate?

    If you mean that I've read about some type and started acting like it, you're wrong then, and in fact, I don't think anybody should do that.

  10. #80
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typoz View Post
    I'm not sure I know what you mean. Could you elaborate?

    If you mean that I've read about some type and started acting like it, you're wrong then, and in fact, I don't think anybody should do that.
    Yeah that's what I was wondering about. See you typed about different periods of type ...I must have misread it then, so was it that you liked those elements of the types or was it the way people reacted to your type?
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

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