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  1. #301
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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  2. #302
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    OK, very belatedly joining this thread. (not from procrastination... for once... only just discovered it)

    I'm still getting my head around the introverted/extroverted function thingies so unfortunately i didn't follow all of this thread.

    I mostly test INTP. I think the times I don't test INTP are when I lose track of who I actually am, rather than how I have to be at work. But, happy for some input. I probably would have tested as J ages ago, but having dealt with some of past demons, I've become much less controlling and the real procrastinator/disorganised chaos has come out. I can still remember what it was like being a control freak, so I can be organised(ish) enough to meet deadlines. But only if there's deadlines. Sometimes I need things to be finalised and settled and 'done'. But I usually don't like making a decision till I have all the information. But sometimes I'll make a decision without all the information.

    The I is definite. Less extreme than it used to be, but everyone I know picks me as the super-quiet introvert.

    I have the huge intuitive models in my head. But there isn't much logic, it's mostly intuition. I can be logical if I have to be, but I'm not logical spontaneously. I think I was more logical in childhood.

    I've learnt how to do emotional stuff a bit, but I kind of still feel like a beginner and I have to think through it.

    I lived inside my head growing up to escape what was around me.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  3. #303
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Over time the assessments become too predictable, thus rendered useless, when someone attempts to confirm they are a certain type in lieu of knowing the real type.

    What worked for finally was getting away from those predictable assessments and first concentrating on my core temperament then my core interaction style. If you determine those two, everything will fall into place.

    This assessment only works if you follow the directions and have gained some experience in various jobs over the years:
    For the following questions think about the work that comes easily to you and most likely you most enjoy doing. When answering these kinds of questions people often think of their current work or most recently learned skills. Don’t do that for this assessment.

    Here we are looking for the kinds of work environments that fit who you are at your core. They most likely draw on your talents rather than learned skills. Take the time to think back to the work you’ve most enjoyed and that came easily to you even if you have to reflect back to a non-work situation. Answer in terms of who you really are, not how you’d like to be or how you have to be on the job.

  4. #304
    Member FranG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "?" View Post
    Over time the assessments become too predictable, thus rendered useless, when someone attempts to confirm they are a certain type in lieu of knowing the real type.
    This is very true. Once one becomes familiar with typology, human bias greatly increases toward a specific type one finds interesting. This bias can be the result of several factors. I started out as INTP, and even still would test as INTP, but I know I'm INTJ. I don't think the test are very useful over the long run. For beginners I think they have some value though. Probably unlike most, I do believe that one can morph into any of the 16 types (although highly unlikely) in lieu of some life changing experience. But yes, it's the long term behavior of oneself that should be studied in contrast to newly learned behavior. This process of long-term evaluation of myself helped me realize that I'm a J instead of a P (some descriptions of J and P are horrible by the way). I am constantly studying the core Jungian preferences and the characteristics of the 16 types in an effort to accurately identify my type, an update if necessary. I have no bias (at least at the conscious level) toward any particular type, other than toward the truth as I see such information an extremely effective tool in learning about oneself and his community as a whole.
    I live the life daily; I die the death nightly

  5. #305
    Senior Member "?"'s Avatar
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    Viable points made Fran. One thing that works for me on the Berens/Nardi assessments is that you actually have to put in some experiential work, which means I have to get out of my head. The system has revised the temperaments, eliminating alot of the hedonistic points made by Keirsey, and replacing them with a need for impact and other language that shows SPs to be between NT and SJ. I consistently show Improvisor/Theorist, which is very accurate:
    The temperament pattern you rated highest:

    Improviser: Want the freedom to choose the next act. Seek to have impact, to get results. Want to be graceful, bold, and impressive. Generally are excited and optimistic. Are absorbed in the action of the moment. Are oriented toward the present. Seek adventure and stimulation. Hunger for spontaneity. Trust impulses, luck, and their ability to solve any problem they run into. Think in terms of variation. Have the ability to notice and describe rich detail, constantly seeking relevant information. Like freedom to move, festivities, and games. Are natural negotiators. Seize opportunities. Are gifted tacticians, deciding the best move to make in the moment, the expedient action to take. Are frequently drawn to all kinds of work that requires variation on a theme.

    The temperament pattern you rated second:

    Theorist: Want knowledge and to be competent, to achieve. Seek to understand how the world and things in it work. Are theory oriented. See everything as conditional and relative. Are oriented to the infinite. Trust logic and reason. Want to have a rationale for everything. Are skeptical. Think in terms of differences, delineating categories, definitions, structures, and functions. Hunger for precision, especially in thought and language. Are skilled at long-range planning, inventing, designing, and defining. Generally are calm. Foster individualism. Frequently gravitate toward technology and the sciences. Well suited for engineering and devising strategy, whether in the social or physical sciences.
    I went as far as to believe that I could be an introverted ENTP, however realized that it was my attempt to manipulate the theory to and seek validation in ENTPs being less social. When I read the "Get Things Going" interaction style, it became quite clear that it did not fit and realized that I have a "Chart the Course" interaction style. After the validation, the pieces seemed to fall into place.

  6. #306
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    I mostly test INTP. I think the times I don't test INTP are when I lose track of who I actually am, rather than how I have to be at work. But, happy for some input. I probably would have tested as J ages ago, but having dealt with some of past demons, I've become much less controlling and the real procrastinator/disorganised chaos has come out. I can still remember what it was like being a control freak, so I can be organised(ish) enough to meet deadlines. But only if there's deadlines. Sometimes I need things to be finalised and settled and 'done'. But I usually don't like making a decision till I have all the information. But sometimes I'll make a decision without all the information.
    ...
    I have the huge intuitive models in my head. But there isn't much logic, it's mostly intuition. I can be logical if I have to be, but I'm not logical spontaneously. I think I was more logical in childhood.

    I've learnt how to do emotional stuff a bit, but I kind of still feel like a beginner and I have to think through it.

    I lived inside my head growing up to escape what was around me.
    Going with the MBTI model of J/P determining your main function use (or which I'm currently questioning the validity of such myself). What you described as "huge intuitive models" in your mind sounds like Ni processing... in particular the lack of spontaneous internal logic. Very much like me it's not a bad thing. Therefore from a function use stand-point, you should be classified more as INTJ rather than INTP. In terms of just looking at J/P distinction. You're more in between. It is important to note that the control freak nature of Js relates more to SJs rather than NJs... in particular INXJ. I like to see the J in us as the need for structural framework for us to build upon rather than physical rigid structures of setting up deadlines and set procedures for doing something. Unfortunately the current type inventory does not address that difference between SJ and NJ, but rather have this "generic" J.

  7. #307
    Senior Member bluebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    Going with the MBTI model of J/P determining your main function use (or which I'm currently questioning the validity of such myself). What you described as "huge intuitive models" in your mind sounds like Ni processing... in particular the lack of spontaneous internal logic. Very much like me it's not a bad thing. Therefore from a function use stand-point, you should be classified more as INTJ rather than INTP. In terms of just looking at J/P distinction. You're more in between. It is important to note that the control freak nature of Js relates more to SJs rather than NJs... in particular INXJ. I like to see the J in us as the need for structural framework for us to build upon rather than physical rigid structures of setting up deadlines and set procedures for doing something. Unfortunately the current type inventory does not address that difference between SJ and NJ, but rather have this "generic" J.
    Thanks for that, very interesting. There is some logic in my models, as in it all fits together. But the models in my head just kinda build themselves, I don't have to logically process all the data. I'm more logical and analytical than my colleagues at work. But I think I'm less logical and thorough than the INTPs I see on INTPc.

    So maybe INTp would be more accurate. I suspect I'm more P than J, given how little I get done at home and how much I procrastinate at home.

    One of my ISTJ colleagues is reasonably self-aware and we sometimes talk about the difference between her and me. She wants the process spelled out in detail whereas I'm happy to make it up as I go along, as long as I have some indication of what my main deadlines are. My desk is the messiest and most disorganised in my team, but all my emails and electronic documents are filed logically.

    Wondering if there's an 'idiot's guide' to the difference between Ne and Ni? I've seen some explanations but it's very generic. Another thing about how I think is that generalities confuse and annoy me but if I have one specific example of something then I can extrapolate and then understand the generalities.
    ...so much smoke pouring out of each chromosome.

  8. #308
    / booyalab's Avatar
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    In noticing the ways my posts and my reactions differ from everyone else on INTPC, I've questioned whether I'm really an INTP for awhile. But I don't think I care anymore.
    On the other hand, since this thread exists now, it might be entertaining to read other people's ideas about my type and the reasons behind them, if there are any.
    I don't wanna!

  9. #309
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by booyalab View Post
    In noticing the ways my posts and my reactions differ from everyone else on INTPC, I've questioned whether I'm really an INTP for awhile. But I don't think I care anymore.
    On the other hand, since this thread exists now, it might be entertaining to read other people's ideas about my type and the reasons behind them, if there are any.
    Ok, what are your concerns?

  10. #310
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebell View Post
    Wondering if there's an 'idiot's guide' to the difference between Ne and Ni? I've seen some explanations but it's very generic. Another thing about how I think is that generalities confuse and annoy me but if I have one specific example of something then I can extrapolate and then understand the generalities.
    I think I just posted something within the last day that brought out the point that Ne assumes that there is truth waiting to be discovered in the external world -- that the patterns exist and that truth can be derived from them. Ne trusts the external world.

    Ni, on the other hand, is skeptical of the external world because the data streams all have "spin" on them when they come in. If someone tells you something, they automatically have a spin on it; but Ni sidesteps around and "reorients" to see things from many different perspectives.

    If you compare it to Se/Si -- it's the same thing. Se trusts the data it's getting, in real-time, and responds to it; it assumes the data is accurate and that it CAN accurately respond to and capitalize on the data coming its way. Si, on the other hand, is an internalized world based on data acquired in the past; it's like the comfortable, or idealized world, how things SHOULD be. There is implicit distrust of the data coming in; it must all be compared to the Si world before being accepted. (This is why ISxJ types often come across as cynical and have to be convinced that something new is actually GOOD, if it's a change from what they're used to.)

    Maybe the comparison to Se/Si helps you to see how the same "pattern" applies to Ne/Ni.

    For another difference, Ne assumes the observer is "anchored" and the patterns are what is moving; it's like the observer is spinning in place at best, or looking down on the patterns from above and seeing them all unfold. Ni assumes that the pattern is stable, but the observer can walk around the pattern and thus reorient, seeing the pattern from all different sides and thus the meaning/view of the pattern changes. (Does that make sense?)

    So someone using Ne might see a red sports car zooming down the street and will note the physics of the car, where it might be and what it could intersect with, where it might end up, what it could be used for, etc. Ni will look the red sports car and might start thinking not about a fast car but about how red sports car are symbols of prestige in society, and how such things don't make sense because a red car really means nothing of value; or it might start thinking about how cars symbolize freedom, because a person becomes very mobile once they can drive, and...

    Well, you see the meaning there? The Ne person is observing the patterns unfold; the Ni person is flipping through a bunch of different meanings/patterns of significance.

    Since we all have eight functions, N folks have either Ne or Ni as strong and have usually developed a bit of the other as well, so sometimes it can seem to overlap.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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