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  1. #201
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gala View Post
    OK, then, have a go. I always test as INPT, and think the descriptions are very accurate for me, but don't see a lot in common with many other INTP posters.
    Try and prove I'm not (just for fun)
    Other way around. First you tell me what your problem is and I will try to solve it.

  2. #202
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gala View Post
    OK, then, have a go. I always test as INPT, and think the descriptions are very accurate for me, but don't see a lot in common with many other INTP posters.
    Try and prove I'm not (just for fun)
    Yah, I'm going to go with you being INTP too. I can't say I have that much in common with other INTPs either.

    Besides the whole slacking, disorganised thing, anyway. And maybe the depression stuff. And the not fitting in.

    I'm so INTP, I don't even fit in with other INTPs.

  3. #203
    Member thirtyfour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirtyfour View Post
    Ok, I'm in. I think this is what SW most enjoys, whether or not it's his biggest talent.

    I have no idea whether i'm an INTP or an INTJ. I test both. I test 100% I 88% N 89% T and then either low P or low J.

    I am a huge procrastinator. My house/car is a mess. I'm reliably late. But, I'm a good student. I've always been an "overachiever." I'm not really familiar with the Ni, Ne Ti, Te etc. distinctions but I need to think on the inside before I verbalize it. That's all I can think of right now. Except that I have an exam tomorrow morning that I'm not yet ready for and I'm on MBTIc.
    Hey SW ~ When's it my turn?

    EDIT: I'm still not ready for my exam tomorrow morning.

  4. #204
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirtyfour View Post
    Hey SW ~ When's it my turn?

    EDIT: I'm still not ready for my exam tomorrow morning.
    We should note that INTJs are not exactly thorough-going Judgers because their salient function is a perceiving one. And INTJs are big picture thinkers and like what is in the mind a lot more than what is in the senses.So when they are doing something that is important to them they will use their Te to be orderly and organized, yet their house will be a mess simply because they dont deem it important to take care of that.

    Here is a salient distinction between the INTJ and the INTP. Leanor Thompson reports that Js are left-brained and Ps are right-brained.

    Even Ni and Si tend to function a lot like Te and Fe, they look at what is consistent and what is needed so those perceiving functions can be counted on to give you just the right information at the right time.

    INTJs tend to go about life doing one thing at a time, this is why they can make a plan and stick to it, provided of course it was a quality plan for that. If not they will continue to wing around untill they make sure that they have a quality plan. INTPs are experiential thinkers, they tend to jump at everything at the same time, so following through on things will be more difficult for them. Thompson describes Ps as experiential learners, they tend to be absorbed themselves in their thoughts. An INTP argues to explore ideas, INTJ just charts the course and when arguing does not need to explore anything, he is just arguing to prove things. Whilst the INTP, again, would improvise on the go and very easily switch positions in the debate. INTJ would have a more difficult time doing this because they'd have to refer to the Ni for this, as this can cause problems.

    Js experience a strange sort of dualism in their interaction with the world. INTPs incept information with the same function that they present in (Ne) whilst INTJs have to swtich back and forth from Ni to Te, and this is why they cant switch positions so readily and easily as INTPs do.


    INTJs trust their iNtuitive insights unconditionally, they dont need to check their ideas for logical coherence before giving them credence. Whilst INTPs cant be satisfied with this, they cant rest untill they are confident that their ideas are logical.

    Here is a way for you to know if you have an Ni. Do you tend to go like.. WOW... thats it! Like you've had a strange insight out of nowhere... and you're just compelled to trust it no matter what... even if logically it would seem unacceptable on further reflection.. Do you feel like your vision will never steer you wrong and noone should dare tell you otherwise? Do you sometimes think that you can predict the future? Most of the prophets in history were either INTJ or INFJ. To give you a better image of how Ni works, imagine an Ne comedian who gives great impromptu presentations. Just like on the go he always knows what to do. Ni works the same way on the inside, for some odd reasons it always gives you great insights without you ever knowing how you came up with this, just like the Ne comedian wouldnt be able to explain to a J how he always know what to do on the go and can always present so well with so little time to prepare.

    Here is a way for you to know if you have a Ti... everything that you believe is true... you can justify with logic.. or at least will ALWAYS try to...and your opinions of people and things... for that matter you always try to be as objective as possible... only what you can justify with logic will be kept on the table.. thats a typical Ti attitude.. do you like solving problems just for fun... trying to systemize everything that piques your interest and rely only on logical probability when deciding what you want to accept as the truth?


    When INTJs banter, their humor tends to be direct as they use Te to present. With INTPs, it tends to be rather subtle. INTJs, when needed could express anger well. ENTJs tend to be the most comfortable with this as Extroverted Judgment has a lot to do with asserting our positions and driving the point home. INTPs, on the other hand tend to have a difficult time expressing anger and can be caricatured as having schizoid disorder. INTJs--schizotypal.. with their radically idiosyncratic way of thinking and 'prophetic' visions and how their Ni is completely other-worldly.. Unhealthy INTPs tend to be obsessed with always staying detached, making everything logical and being autonomous and unhealthy INTJs tend to be obsessed with making sure that their vision is right and is lived out and proving their ideas. INTJs have an intense need to apply knowledge and get their vision out to the world, whereas INTPs could easily be satisfied just having quietly solved problems on their own with nothing more.



    Sorry for the verbose response, I was improvising and brainstorming as I went along...

  5. #205
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Here is a way for you to know if you have an Ni. Do you tend to go like.. WOW... thats it! Like you've had a strange insight out of nowhere... and you're just compelled to trust it no matter what... even if logically it would seem unacceptable on further reflection.. Do you feel like your vision will never steer you wrong and noone should dare tell you otherwise? Do you sometimes think that you can predict the future? Most of the prophets in history were either INTJ or INFJ.
    I think another way to consider Ni is that it really involves removing oneself from the given frame of reference to see things from another point of view. It is skeptical of outside data, in the sense that one doesn't necessarily trust what is coming inside -- everything has SOME sort of "spin" on it or angle, it is what the deliverer wants you to see -- and Ni intuits beyond that. It looks at the input and almost breaks the obvious connection, so that it can intuit all around the object.

    This is why the INTJ trusts his or her inner vision. Someone with Ne looks for patterns in outside reality and draws truth FROM them; the Ni person looks at the patterns and says, "What am I being expected to assume here?" There is a distrust of the outer patterns, in favor of the internal vision. And this is why the inner vision can be superimposed upon the outer patterns.

    Here is a way for you to know if you have a Ti... everything that you believe is true... you can justify with logic.. or at least will ALWAYS try to...and your opinions of people and things... for that matter you always try to be as objective as possible... only what you can justify with logic will be kept on the table.. thats a typical Ti attitude.. do you like solving problems just for fun... trying to systemize everything that piques your interest and rely only on logical probability when deciding what you want to accept as the truth?
    The Ti, fueled by Se or Ne, trusts the outer stimulation and weighs the probability of things and makes conclusions accordingly.

    From observable behavior, the Ni seems to walk to his/her own path, rejecting the outer patterns or approaching them in unexpected ways. They can propose intuitions and visions that people would not have thought of, ways of orienting oneself to the environment. Since there is no inherent meaning to anything, the Ni feels as if it is okay to describe a myriad of visions about people or the world. Meaning is given.

    The Ti draws conclusions directly from the environment, so the logic is apparent if explained, and the possibilities are observable to others. Meaning is inherent in the system (if it exists) -- it must be derived from the data stream, not imposed upon it, and there IS a systematic meaning to everything. The goal is simply to discern what the pattern is and apply logic to it.

    At least, that's what Lenore Thomson seems to suggest...

    So I think this understanding of Ni explains why an INFJ (for example) seems to be able to "flex" (they can a multitude of meanings in things) but is still okay with imposing a viewpoint/decision on the world, while the INTP flexes in terms of seeing all the possibilities in things and remaining a third-person observer, but can only derive meaning and is inflexible THAT way (i.e., refuses to impose meaning).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #206
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    Oh, whenever we talk about Ni (especially the way Fortunato is talking about it now), I get all confused and wonder what my actual dominant process is. I use Ni a LOT, but I think I decide with Fi. I'm a lousy excuse for an Fe type, anyway. V. confusing. Hmmm.

  7. #207
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Oh, whenever we talk about Ni (especially the way Fortunato is talking about it now), I get all confused and wonder what my actual dominant process is. I use Ni a LOT, but I think I decide with Fi. I'm a lousy excuse for an Fe type, anyway. V. confusing. Hmmm.


    If you're an INFJ, you probably decide with the Fe. Though the Ni, since it is superior to the Fe can make your Fe seem like an Fi because N is the superior function and it is so internally focused and therefore the person becomes entirely internally focused and the Fe could easily begin to look like an introverted function.

  8. #208
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    Oh, whenever we talk about Ni (especially the way Fortunato is talking about it now), I get all confused and wonder what my actual dominant process is. I use Ni a LOT, but I think I decide with Fi. I'm a lousy excuse for an Fe type, anyway. V. confusing. Hmmm.
    Well, admittedly, it's simply what I have been reading and trying to understand. So feel free to challenge or qualify my statements however you'd like.

    On my eight function test, while I consistently test as INTP, I consistently rate very high in Ni as well, so that's one reason why it's probably confused me -- I wasn't sure how to separate Ne and Ni. But these texts seem to make sense to me, that Ne derives patterns from the outer external world and Ni steps outside of them (just like Se derives data from the outer external world, where Si is the inner arrangement of data and so sort of "steps around" or constructs its own world, so to speak, and is skeptical of new information that doesn't match up).
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #209
    Senior Member Eileen's Avatar
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    I think maybe I use Ni too consciously for it to be my dominant process. Does that make any sense? I use it in particular in my religious pondering, but in those moments, I am pretty deliberate about it. I don't think I live inside Ni.

    Another neat thing about socionics, which I don't know anything about, is that they don't talk about the strength of cognitive functions; they talk about HOW you use them in your psyche. I don't know anything more about it than that, but I think that it makes sense at least in theory. I think I have pretty developed use of Ni, but I don't think that it's my dominant function.

  10. #210
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eileen View Post
    I think maybe I use Ni too consciously for it to be my dominant process. Does that make any sense? I use it in particular in my religious pondering, but in those moments, I am pretty deliberate about it. I don't think I live inside Ni.

    Another neat thing about socionics, which I don't know anything about, is that they don't talk about the strength of cognitive functions; they talk about HOW you use them in your psyche. I don't know anything more about it than that, but I think that it makes sense at least in theory. I think I have pretty developed use of Ni, but I don't think that it's my dominant function.
    Just a suggestion, but it is common for us between the ages of 20-30 to think that our secondary function is our dominant. Many INTPs will feel like ENTPs yet know that they are not outgoing enough to class themselves as that... fall under the impression that intuition is their salient function and call themselves INTJs. Many INFJs will get infatuated with their secondary Extroverted Feeling but know that they are not outgoing enough to be ENFJ, think that the Feeling function is their dominant and call themselves INFP.

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