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  1. #81
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    What? Can you not enter into a debate on functions? I would really like that. The ENTJ I know irl loves to talk incessantly about his ideas and beliefs, he and I can really feed off each other. I find it odd that you don't.......What do you get off being here?
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

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  2. #82
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    What? Can you not enter into a debate on functions? I would really like that. The ENTJ I know irl loves to talk incessantly about his ideas and beliefs, he and I can really feed off each other. I find it odd that you don't.......What do you get off being here?
    Jag, debate the obvious? Thanks, but no thanks.
    Buy Gary Hartzler's book, or any good book, on functions and learn them.
    From what I can see, you have problems with even the basics.

    As far as your alleged ENTJ friend?
    I assure you I don't have diarrhea of the mouth talking "incessantly" about my beliefs and ideas.
    Sounds to me like superficial drivel.

    I prefer to keep my cards close.

  3. #83
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Sim, this whole response is just so defensive. You make so many assumptions here about the op's intent (which may or may not be true), not to mention assumptions about the fallacy of the test. You just (seem to) jump way ahead without really thinking about if this test has any validity.
    I think the OP's intent is apparent from the title: "Ni vs. Si comparative TEST" seems to clearly imply that responses to the picture are supposed to test Ni vs. Si use. How else might this be interpreted?

    As for the fallacy of the test...if type is a question of preferences over many different situations, how can one response in one situation give enough of a sample size to have any meaning at all? Maybe if OP provided 100+ pictures with real data supporting how Ni vs. Si users will respond (which would be hard to obtain in the first place), it might mean something, but as it is it's just amusing at best and doesn't offer any real meaningful information about functional preferences.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Not to mention it's just disrespectful to me (and others) who might have come before you and stated that this was a pretty cool way to test cognitive functions. The best insight I've gotten into Si, for example, has been when I conducted a little visual test among the different perceivers in my family. I blogged a bit about it. I'll quote the pertinent part here:
    Well, if you believe it's a cool way to test cognitive functions, but it's not actually effective as a cognitive functions test, I feel compelled to point that out.

    My first post was actually not personally disrespectful to anyone: I simply stated that people with good Ni would be able to recognize the multitude of amorphous variables at work here and conclude pretty easily that the answer to this "test" doesn't mean much in terms of determining functional preferences.

    I didn't get rude until you dismissed that comment, which was perfectly valid, as "just another cocky/inaccurate ENTP idea" or whatever. I had a good point, you blew me off without bothering to consider it, you got a rude response.


    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    So, you see, your sarcastic response about Si was totally off the mark; no where near what I've observed, nor what other members of this board have described. I know you to be an open-minded person in other ways, but when it comes to something you think you know, you appear very close-minded. But that is part and parcel of being an extraverted perceiver, according to SolitaryWalker.
    My response about Si was about what the expected test response would be, and the implication was that the expected test response would not line up often with real responses, hence my initial criticism of placing any stock in this as a "test."

    Now, could it be interesting to note how self-described Ni-ers describe their responses as opposed to self-described Si-ers? Sure, but that's not a test, it's just gathering information for consideration. It doesn't become a useful test until you have solid information showing that it tests something at least somewhat reliably.


    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Furthermore, since a picture is worth a thousand words, asking a question about a picture is a very open-ended, and therefore potentially unbiased way, of finding out about a person's thought processes. That's why I've been thinking for quite a while that developing cognitive functions tests heavy on pictures, would be much more illuminating and accurate than tests that rely on verbage.
    Sure, but that's not a test. That's gathering information regarding how people who describe themselves as xxxx type will respond to a picture. That's a far cry from testing Ni vs. Si use for several reasons, not the least of which being that it depends on the test-taker's ability to accurately assess his own Ni/Si preference in order to have any meaning at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    And I never thought, and the OP never said, this was one-stop shopping for a cognitive test to determine Ni vs Si. I perceived it as a sampler, just to get a taste of some of the difference between the two. So, kudos to musttry for starting this thread! Obviously, more pictures and more analyses would lend more information for drawing conclusions about the functions as they relate to mbti type.
    I read the thread and found some of the responses interesting. The problem is, a lot of people on the forum know so little about functions that they don't even know how to determine their Ni/Si preference accurately in the first place, so the way they respond to the picture doesn't really give us any meaningful information about how Ni vs. Si might interpret it.

    It might be interesting in terms of, "Okay, it's nice to see how this individual person responded", but it's certainly not any sort of meaningful test of functional preference.

    I'm glad that you're reading SW's book. From the few excerpts I've read it seems quite useful. If you want to draw more conclusions about functional preferences, you need a lot more information than immediate response to one image, though. The sample size is just too small and the number of variables too great to mean anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Jag, debate the obvious? Thanks, but no thanks.
    Buy Gary Hartzler's book, or any good book, on functions and learn them.
    From what I can see, you have problems with even the basics.

    As far as your alleged ENTJ friend?
    I assure you I don't have diarrhea of the mouth talking "incessantly" about my beliefs and ideas.
    Sounds to me like superficial drivel.

    I prefer to keep my cards close.
    I'm afraid I actually have to agree with Jaguar on this point. You still seem confused on a number of basic functional principles. But reading more about it is exactly what you should be doing, so good job on that.

    Jag, can you recommend any other good books on the topic of Jungian functions?
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  4. #84
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Jag, debate the obvious? Thanks, but no thanks.
    Buy Gary Hartzler's book, or any good book, on functions and learn them.
    From what I can see, you have problems with even the basics.

    As far as your alleged ENTJ friend?
    I assure you I don't have diarrhea of the mouth talking "incessantly" about my beliefs and ideas.
    Sounds to me like superficial drivel.

    I prefer to keep my cards close.
    Hello

  5. #85
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    IMO, no. I'm not really seeing any inherent "patterns" being established, I'm just seeing people projecting the cog functions we've already imposed prior to our "test."



    It's also Ne, which springboards from one piece of an idea to the next:

    Candle light -> candles -> sixteen candles -> youtube won't play it

    It sort of just reinforces my point in this post, these threads are just self-justifying.
    This! You're a Jen-ius, Jenny.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  6. #86
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post

    You need to lose some weight, chubster.

  7. #87
    Alexander the Terrible yenom's Avatar
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    Everyone stop arguing. I thought about the poster the whole night without sleeping and I came to this conclusion.

    Its actually a Communist Propaganda Poster denouncing bourgeois values.

    The red color in the sale sign shows it all
    The fear of poverty turns people into slaves of money.

    "In this Caesar there are many Mariuses"~Sulla

    Conquer your inner demons first before you conquer the world.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Jag, can you recommend any other good books on the topic of Jungian functions?
    Other than Hartzler's? Nope. I prefer to get info online from scads of sources.
    Getting only one author's POV annoys me.
    No offense, Sim, but that's why I made fun of you and Lenore. Limited input.
    Or have you forgotten there's a rumor NTs don't believe in "experts."

  9. #89
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Other than Hartzler's? Nope. I prefer to get info online from scads of sources.
    Getting only one author's POV annoys me.
    No offense, Sim, but that's why I made fun of you and Lenore. Limited input.
    Or have you forgotten there's a rumor NTs don't believe in "experts."
    I've read the original Jung as well as a couple other MBTI-oriented books. Lenore isn't my only source and never has been...I didn't even read her book until January of this year.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  10. #90
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Jag, debate the obvious? Thanks, but no thanks.
    Buy Gary Hartzler's book, or any good book, on functions and learn them.
    From what I can see, you have problems with even the basics.

    As far as your alleged ENTJ friend?
    I assure you I don't have diarrhea of the mouth talking "incessantly" about my beliefs and ideas.
    Sounds to me like superficial drivel.

    I prefer to keep my cards close.
    Wow. So condescending. Amazing. Or not. I have a few functions books, not to mention online sources galore. They don't tell me much, honestly. (I've already said all that on here anyway). They're pretty limiting, including Jung himself, after a certain point.

    I was just inviting you to debate or discuss. You don't have to be so huffy about it. I thought that's what a forum was for.........
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
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    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


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