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  1. #121
    Senior Member nynesneg's Avatar
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    Reaction to OP.


    Bullshit. I used to work as a real estate agent. TOTAL DRAMA! People are on an emotional rollercoaster while buying a new house, and it's a pain in the ass. And I think "perfect" families standing next to each other like that are a cookie cutter load of crap.



    There's my instant mental reaction.
    3w2


    Those who are content being normal lack the depth and passion to rise above mediocracy.
    To push beyond their natural abilities and create a reality from their dreams.

  2. #122
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    If you are going to post, or have any validity in a thread about cognitive functions, and criticize people within that thread, at least post your MBTI type. No mystery, you must be some sort of NT.
    Another possibility: A person could know his type but choose not to share it. Not posting it doesn't mean s/he doesn't know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I am tired, so tired, of being told by NTs that I (or other NFs) take things too personally, when I've simply called out rude and derogatory (non-working, non-learning) communication styles. It's as if you guys think seeking truth is excused from the way you deliver it, and instead of owning that, you simply say, "Oh, NF is projecting their hurt feelings into things."
    I'm afraid you're the one refusing to learn. I've written a pretty substantial amount of pertinent and useful information up for you and you've made no particular effort to grasp it.

    And by the way, you were the first person to be rude. I criticized the validity of the test (a completely impersonal criticism directed solely at methodology) and you responded by insulting ENTPs and declaring my point "cocky and inaccurate."

    Given that my initial comment was an entirely impersonal criticism, and you chose to respond with a personal insult, it seems reasonable to infer that you took an impersonal comment unreasonably personally.

    The rest of the thread consisted of me expending quite a bit of effort to explain my ideas to you, and you ignoring 95% of it and/or responding with "ummm yeah whatever I don't get it."

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    You are obviously biased, if you cannot see how negative and belligerent sim is being in some of his posts, especially the last one, yet point out that I (who am trying to retain an aire of equanimity) am feeling hurt. Puleeze.
    I think my posts got less offensive as this thread went on. In fact, I told you that I think you're smart and have a unique perspective and that I thought you'd come up with some really great content if you just refined your basic understanding a little.

    Granted, of course, I'm a stupid NT with no emotions, but I don't understand what's belligerent about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Finally, and get this straight. I am not taking his criticism personally. I don't even understand how you get that. My feelings are not hurt, for fuck's sake. I am simply frustrated that someone as smart as sim, cannot adopt an aire of decorum, and not defensiveness, even a meager one, when debating something. If someone cannot mind the rules of good arguing/debate, and continues nearly verbally abusive behavior, I will not discuss things with said person, beyond a few tries. What's the point? He could just as easily have said, "I see you might disagree with Jung here, which is a contradiction to your ealier statement (see quote). Can you explain this stance?"
    I think I spent my last post complimenting your intelligence and suggesting that with a little more work on fundamentals you could come up with some really incredible content.

    Aside from that I spent a fair amount of time trying to come up with new ways to rephrase my ideas so that they might be a little clearer...and you made little to no attempt to respond to, consider, or even acknowledge them, instead opting to continue complaining about how awful I am and complaining that everyone is just way too closed-minded to appreciate your revolutionary perspective.

    Of course, since everyone who disagrees with your assertions here is an NT, you can feel free to ignore all of their responses, and I imagine you will.

    Until we meet again!
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #123
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    I'm afraid you're the one refusing to learn. I've written a pretty substantial amount of pertinent and useful information up for you and you've made no particular effort to grasp it.
    Wow. You really get off on flogging dead horses, huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #124
    No Cigar Litvyak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musttry View Post
    For the sake of the experiment, Ni users post all your IMMEDIATE reactions to the following picture.
    It's a rather displeasing feeling, almost fear. The arrival of a storm.

    So... what exactly is the test? What does this prove?

  5. #125
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musttry View Post
    For the sake of the experiment, Ni users post all your IMMEDIATE reactions to the following picture.

    If you are an Si user, please post your reaction in the other thread prior to reading comments here.
    Hmm, this doesn't tell me much of anything, except it could mean two things:

    a) dreams fulfilled

    b) dreams ruined and trying to stick together

    Most likely a.

  6. #126
    Senior Member musttry's Avatar
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    Sorry for disappearing. It was a hectic week at work. In case anyone is curious, I actually do conduct research for a living. As such, I agree with sciski:
    Quote Originally Posted by sciski View Post
    I will add a hearty to this.

    A better test? Grab someone who doesn't know what type they are or what MBTI is, ask them their response to this test, record it, then figure out their type afterwards. Then you might have some unbiased data for correlation purposes. Repeat this with 10,000,000 other people for extra data.

    Actually, double-blind it... the experimenter just gets the response-to-picture data and establishes patterns with it. Afterwards, the experimenter can get the type data (but named as "type A", "type B", etc) and see if there are matches between patterns of response and each type. When all the items are matched, only then are the types actually revealed.

    And then to make things more laborious, tell all the subjects their type, give them a flattering type description, show them yet another picture, record responses, then see whether the correlation between responses and type becomes stronger.

    I'm betting it does.

    Oh gosh, to be truly evil, tell all the subjects a WRONG (but similar) type, give them a flattering type description and perform the experiment.

    Maybe it's bed-time for me.
    This would be the end all of all research on personality type! However, no money to be made by anybody. Costs would be phenomenal. In fact, I think they created the big 5 theories because the were easier to test scientifically.

    The justification for a qualitative empirical test is to explore a concept that is difficult to explain. When doing this type of research, you are not looking for a definite answer but more for a trend, a tendency, a consensus, etc. Results cannot be extrapolated to the entire populationthey are isolated truths in and of themselves.

    In short, since we all use all 8 functions, I think its just more interesting to pick out what fits into what is considered to be typical of the cognitive process than to pin anybody down as a Ni user. I think that attracting more Ni users helps to bring in a more targeted pool.

    Therefore, starting with a largely accepted definition of Ni

    Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level. Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us. A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden Aha! or Thats it! The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future. Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform. We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs. This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal.

    So based on the definition, we are looking for statements that make links between elements (preferably symbols) and synthesizes them into a conclusion about what follows.

    What is not Ni is:
    - brainstorming ideas
    - noticing details
    - interpreting specific elements.

    Ok,
    Here are my top picks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sky is BLUE! View Post
    Alright, the family either bought the house and they're now beaming with pride and joy. Their own home. It's not their first one. He got a new job, they had to move to another state. Or they're just there to see the house because they're planning on buying it or whatever.

    Hmm...the man seems distant. Trouble in paradise? Oh, he's not really that thrilled about mowing the lawn. That takes some regular trimming to stay nice. That poor kid. Teaching responsibility and all that. Isn't child labour nice? But that might also be the start of his entrepreneurship...or it will be the end of it.

    She probably wants to have a girl. Definitely. The nuclear family and all that.
    - shows that the person is trying to make sense of contradicting elements. Predictions based on Fe
    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Justice View Post
    The family is finally off to their new home.

    The family lost their home.

    Either change represents new beginnings and ambivalence.
    - two separate conclusions synthesized

    Quote Originally Posted by Nunki View Post
    Why is the FOR SALE sign the focus of the picture? Oh, I'll bet the family has lost their home. That's why their arms are around each other; they're trying to comfort one another . . . although they could just as easily be looking at a home they've just bought, embracing each other in a sort of familial bliss. It would be difficult to imagine why the sign would still be up, though. It could be, though, and I suppose it's quite possible that the picture is meant to be ambiguous. If so, it's a portrait not of the loss of homes or of the purchase of them, but somehow of both at once. It's very fitting for these times, when home ownership is surrounded by just as much uncertainty as this picture suggests.
    synthesizing, but no projection into the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by thea View Post
    This family is gonna be slaves of this house and bank for at least next 20 years. American Dream is nothing but a nightmare.
    projection into the future based on Te instead of Fe. No details are even mentioned!

    Quote Originally Posted by Uytuun View Post
    "perfect family" for sale
    Some kind of synthesizing, although could be mere interpretation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I see that picture as a movie. The next thing that happens is, the family turns around together, smiling, and gets in their car, which is packed with their suitcases, and they go down the road on an adventure to their next new house.
    projection into the future that imagines elements related to the picture but not present in the picture.

    I also thought this was interesting:
    Quote Originally Posted by cloud View Post
    (3)Real estate poster bullshit marketing scheme, your family needs to find the right house to be happy.
    rethinking the box = Ti.

    Anywaysdespite some raised tempers I thought this was actually quite interesting.

  7. #127
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Wow. You really get off on flogging dead horses, huh?
    Not as much as I get off on beating dead INTP women.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #128
    Obsession. Lethe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musttry View Post
    [...]The justification for a qualitative empirical test is to explore a concept that is difficult to explain. When doing this type of research, you are not looking for a definite answer but more for a trend, a tendency, a consensus, etc. Results cannot be extrapolated to the entire populationthey are isolated truths in and of themselves.

    In short, since we all use all 8 functions, I think its just more interesting to pick out what fits into what is considered to be typical of the cognitive process [...]
    Just thought I'd mention something about the Ni/Si tests: it's hard to grasp a moment where the functions are working alone, because they will typically be coordinating with some other function. For instance, if you look at the Si thread, it also appears like the users are utilizing both Si (for comparison & analysis) and Ne (for interpretation & extrapolation), not just Si alone. That's why the responses are diverging from what you've expected to hear. Perhaps if more specific instructions were offered, then it would have permitted a sharper focus amongst the respondents. Si users can allude to generalities and Ni users can pinpoint specifics --- yet with entirely different approaches and purposes for that information.

    However, since you're looking for typical examples of a cognitive process, I think INFJs make better candidates, and coincidentally, you've chosen them as your top picks. With Te as the INTJ's axillary, there's less applicable raw Ni for us to draw on because of Te's role as the pragmatist. I also tend to believe the same goes for ISTJs & ISFJs. You'll observe Si better in ISFJs, since ISTJs need to use both Si & Ne to give Te a strong operation in reality. Ne makes sure the individual doesn't loose track of the bigger picture while Si monitors the smaller everyday changes. Pe is a must for real-time information.
    "I cannot expect even my own art to provide all of the answers -- only to hope it keeps asking the right questions." -- Grace Hartigan

    Enneagram: Tritype - 1w9, 5 (balanced wings), 2w3; Overall Variant: So/Sx
    SLOAN: rCoa|I|
    Functional Preferences: Ni, Te/Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si, Ne


    Quote Originally Posted by OneWithSoul View Post
    Looking into the eyes of a [Ni user] is like peeking through a portal into a parallel universe.

  9. #129
    Senior Member musttry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lethe View Post
    However, since you're looking for typical examples of a cognitive process, I think INFJs make better candidates, and coincidentally, you've chosen them as your top picks. With Te as the INTJ's axillary, there's less applicable raw Ni for us to draw on because of Te's role as the pragmatist. I also tend to believe the same goes for ISTJs & ISFJs. You'll observe Si better in ISFJs, since ISTJs need to use both Si & Ne to give Te a strong operation in reality. Ne makes sure the individual doesn't loose track of the bigger picture while Si monitors the smaller everyday changes. Pe is a must for real-time information.
    I was also surprised that a few NTs seemed to be at a loss for words. Perhaps the picture had more elements that appealed to Fe as you say.

    I wonder though if Pe is really that important. Isn't Pi still in contact with the surroundings. If Pe is necessary, then you are saying that NFJs are actually taking in the info through Se?

  10. #130
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musttry View Post
    I was also surprised that a few NTs seemed to be at a loss for words. Perhaps the picture had more elements that appealed to Fe as you say.

    I wonder though if Pe is really that important. Isn't Pi still in contact with the surroundings. If Pe is necessary, then you are saying that NFJs are actually taking in the info through Se?
    NFJs are taking in the info through their eyes, just like everyone else...seeing things in front of you is not "using" any function. It's just seeing things in front of you.

    Se is not the process of looking around and seeing things. Se is not an action.

    Se is a way of conceptualizing your relationship to the external world which encourages you to place the most emphasis on immediate sensory impressions and reacting to them in the moment.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

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