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Ni v. Si - A Comparative Analysis

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
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Oct 31, 2009
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Btw, I'm very familiar with the similarities and the differences between the two, as I'm an Ni dom user, and my Dad is an Si dom user.

The ways in which the two manifest themselves in the world, while similar in some regards, end up being very different in many other regards.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
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Why don't we move this discussion to its own thread?

It's not about INTJs and whether or not they're intelligent.

It's about the similarities and differences between Si and Ni.

How do we do that, btw?

Can we just move everything from that point that we derailed?

Does a mod have to do it?
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
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INTJ
Why don't we move this discussion to its own thread?

It's not about INTJs and whether or not they're intelligent.

It's about the similarities and differences between Si and Ni.

How do we do that, btw?

Can we just move everything from that point that we derailed?

Does a mod have to do it?

I agree. This has been the best part of this thread.
 

Night

Boring old fossil
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Tell me which thread number you'd like me to begin at, and I will perform the transplant.
 

Poki

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Incidentally, with that description of Si...

I think Si is more than collation. I suspect (without knowing) that Si is something of a generative endeavour, for it is about identifying differences and similarities. Lots of them. There will be a whole user-generated scheme detailing higher and lower level differences and similarities, extending out to include even arcane, but observably real, connections. It will be a considerable, realistically organised, and--most importantly--dynamically accessible database.

One assumes so, anyway.

I think to switch this over to Se: Se is about noticing the differences and similarities, but not really identifying them. Se is all about dynamics, but not the detail within the dynamics. I can dig deeper into the detail if I want, but I will be slower then an Si to dig into the details because I am not used to figuring out where to dig as I mostly sit high level.
 

teslashock

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Ni is more generative, more creative, is looking to build new frameworks, find new connections, push the boundaries, look at things from as many different perspectives as possible to find the one that will be most useful in a particular situation, and more.

Si is less generative, less creative, is looking to use an existing framework or frameworks, establish how old connections fit the current situation, keep the boundaries where they are, look at things from the same perspective (or set of perspectives -- I won't say Si users have only one perspective, cuz that would be wrong) because that perspective seems to have always worked in the past, and so on.

This is really good, but like others in this thread, you seem to be implying that Ni is somehow inherently better than Si (more generative, more creative, etc.). Considering that Si continually gets a bad rap for being "boring, dull, and robotic" while Ni is viewed as this desirable, mystical function that could bring to light answers to the universe's greatest questions, I think a discussion on these two functions would be better if we could open our minds to the positive and negative characteristics of both. Otherwise I see this turning into yet another Si bash vs. Ni idolatry fest.

Rather than comparing Si to Ni through the positive skillsets that Ni definitively allows for (creatively organizing external information according to novel/unique internal constructs), it would be better to examine the two through some other lens, set apart by an equal distance from both Ni and Si, that way there's no comparative bias.

While Ni may be "more creative" than is Si (according to your Ni perspective on generative and creative, at least), Si is "more" of other positive skill sets than is Ni. Si rigidly molds external data according to a more organized, practical, and structured framework, while Ni loosely molds external data according to a more conditional, experimental, and flexible framework. Both have their merits, and both come in handy depending on the context.

Pardon me if this all seems nit-picky. I'm just not a fan of using positive Ni characteristics to desribe Si, as this description is set in terms that implicitly humbles Si to Ni.
 

miss fortune

not to be trusted
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*wanders in to see if these introverted function thingies are anything like their extroverted counterparts...*

:run:
 

teslashock

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*wanders in to see if these introverted function thingies are anything like their extroverted counterparts...*

:run:

Oh no. Are we going to need two more threads that compare Se/Si and Ne/Ni? Way to start rounding out a snowball...
 

miss fortune

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well, if we're doing comparisons it would make sense... and probably it'd be useful for those on the fence about their type! :cheese:

however, I'm waiting for someone more motivated to do it :devil:

and this thread has WAY too few pictures for a thread mentioning Se :tongue:
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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Giant_snowball_Oxford.jpg



Nah.
 

JocktheMotie

Habitual Fi LineStepper
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The user brings in information, and then processes that according to some internalized framework. That's the greatest extent of their similarity.


Ni is more generative, more creative, is looking to build new frameworks, find new connections, push the boundaries, look at things from as many different perspectives as possible to find the one that will be most useful in a particular situation, and more.

Si is less generative, less creative, is looking to use an existing framework or frameworks, establish how old connections fit the current situation, keep the boundaries where they are, look at things from the same perspective (or set of perspectives -- I won't say Si users have only one perspective, cuz that would be wrong) because that perspective seems to have always worked in the past, and so on.

The bolded is where I think you're imposing the work of the judging function onto the the perceiving one, if only just a little. If I had to pick one word to describe the irrational functions, it would be that they identify. Ne identifies connections/similarities/relationships between objects. Ni identifies the multiple pathways, perspectives, connections within the form of data. Si identifies the consistencies or inconsistencies between established data vs. new data. Se identifies where the boobies are.

The irrational functions see, the judging ones assign importance based on what you are seeing. Anytime you find your N or S making decisions about the data they're presenting you, you're experiencing the work of the judging function.
 

Poki

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That picture is N. Cant you see the kid that is about to get rolled over because he is not paying attention. The single guy who can see around the snowball is not paying attention(must be an N). Then everyone pushing it falls in laughter not even wondering if it was intentional while the kid that got run over sits there and thinks it was intentional because everyone is laughing not realizing they are laughing at the image and thought of a kid getting pummeled by a huge snowball not really laughing directly at him.
 

teslashock

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The bolded is where I think you're imposing the work of the judging function onto the the perceiving one, if only just a little.


I think the way Z worded it made it seem like there is an active decision-making proces occurring to evaluate/analyze, which would certainly be more in line with a judging function. However, (and he can correct me if I'm wrong), I think Z was trying to say that Si is the default/automatic placement of ones perceptions into an established, organized framework, while Ni is the default/automatic ongoing restructuring of the framework that molds ones perceptions.

Thus, there's no decisions going on once the data is perceived; that's just automatically how the data gets internalized. Both Pi functions suck in data and fit the data into some internal construct, without consciously weighing the value of different possible constructs according to some outside standards. It's all automatic.

So in that case, both Ni and Si are still seeing/identifying; Si sees/idenfitifies where new perceived data fits in with previously stored data. Ni sees/identifies the different angles by which external information can be interpreted.

Z explained this in a way that made it seem like he was personifying Ni/Si, giving them a mind so to speak, making his assertions appear like there's an active decision-making process complimenting them, but again, I don't know if that's how he meant it.
 

musttry

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I suggest an experiment to test out Si and Ni. I'll be creating two different posts with the same stimuli. Si users should only look at their thread prior to viewing the Ni thread and vice versa.

Science!
 

Jaguar

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Btw, I'm very familiar with the similarities and the differences between the two, as I'm an Ni dom user, and my Dad is an Si dom user.

The ways in which the two manifest themselves in the world, while similar in some regards, end up being very different in many other regards.

So is my Dad, Z.

He and I have great respect for each other since my strength is his weakness, and his strength is my weakness.
We work very well as a team when dealing with business matters.
That's not to say Si and Ni can't clash. Lol. We can, and do.
 

Totenkindly

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That picture is N. Cant you see the kid that is about to get rolled over because he is not paying attention. The single guy who can see around the snowball is not paying attention(must be an N). Then everyone pushing it falls in laughter not even wondering if it was intentional while the kid that got run over sits there and thinks it was intentional because everyone is laughing not realizing they are laughing at the image and thought of a kid getting pummeled by a huge snowball not really laughing directly at him.

If you had more S, you would have noticed some kid's already inside the snowball... what IS that black thing embedded in the front anyhoo? ;)
 

uumlau

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I think it's Z.

Notice he hasn't been posting, since ...

:devil:
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
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I suggest an experiment to test out Si and Ni. I'll be creating two different posts with the same stimuli. Si users should only look at their thread prior to viewing the Ni thread and vice versa.

Science!


I like your idea...I hope other Si doms answer. You might want to post this link in the SJ forum for them to participate.
 
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