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  1. #71
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    I confess I haven't read a single word of this thread, but that won't stop me from throwing in my 2 cents:

    OK, so I'm pretty sure both Si and Ni are about anticipating things before they happen, whereas Ne and Se are about reacting to things while they happen. So both Si and Ni draw on the past, and both Si and Ni predict the future - but they don't share the same focus.

    • Introverted Sensation is about physical anticipation - you can "feel" the physical outcome of something before actually experiencing it, because you're drawing from and reliving a rich database of past sensations. You feel sick when looking at a piece of food because the food looks or smells like a bad experience you've had in the past. You haven't actually tasted the food, and other people might think that there's nothing wrong with the food, but you're still convinced that it will be bad for you.

    • Introverted Intuition is about contextual anticipation - you can detach yourself from the meaning of things and think in terms of symbols or archetypes being applied to different contexts. By doing this, you just "know" the outcome of something, because you've subconsciously picked up on patterns and symbols that point to it as an inevitability. You have yet to experience this, because it hasn't happened yet - but still you know, with almost absolute certainty, that it will.


    This is probably only a small part of the difference between the two, and I still can't wrap my head around Ni enough to give a genuine description of how its experienced, but it just happened to be something I was thinking about today and I felt like sharing.
    Hello

  2. #72
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    My point was that even if their process of drawing information was similar, what they do with that information, and how they apply it is much different.
    Actually, your point was that Ni and Si could not be similar at all. Read:

    What!? They aren't the same process at all. Either elaborate or stop spouting nonsense.
    and

    Si is irrevocably different from Ni. They are not similar at all.
    and

    What do you mean by "no meaningful difference"? They are entirely different; I explained why.
    *sniff, sniff*

    What is that smell? Why, could that be the subtle stench of humility diffusing into your posts?

  3. #73
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    I tried to use Ni in my posts about the picture. It was all physics/action/theory based on past patterns. It is derived from a strong Se and Ti based on an understanding of how things work physically. I was pretty much predicting the outcome based on patterns, the theories of why are my patterns or Ni. I generally dont go into the detail of physics or the formulas really, just the general knowledge of why things happen and interact. The things the formulas calculate, for example how fast you need to go around an icy bank with out sliding up or down is based on experience as opposed to a formula. It is a very Se based Ni and from experience and adjusting everything in the moment to balance things out.

    Dominant Ni is a more Te/Fe based Ni. Much different usage and application. It is used for a purpose as opposed to something to play with.

    If you look at INTPs they play with the detail, if you look at ISTPs we play with the patterns.

    edit: this is why I can drive an INTJ insane if I want. They use patterns for a goal while I will play with them and completely derail the goal. The goal is understanding and sharing knowledge to accomplish something. With ISTJ I get put in my place as I will do the same thing, but if I hit a topic their Si is really strong in they pretty much kill my pattern because it doesnt fit when you bring in all the detail. The go way deeper with S then my Se does and while my pattern is correct it doesnt fit the situation or topic at hand because of all the detail.
    Im out, its been fun

  4. #74
    Senior Member Lex Talionis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teslashock View Post
    Actually, your point was that Ni and Si could not be similar at all. Read:

    *sniff, sniff*

    What is that smell? Why, could that be the subtle stench of humility diffusing into your posts?


    You are misunderstanding the point I was attemtping to make. I take the blame for paying little attention to my wording, but I stand by what I've typed. In the former, where I asserted that they aren't the same process at all, I was referring to the entire operation overall. In the latter, where I attempted to clarify, I was referring to the different processes within Si and Ni. The complete functions aren't the same at all, unless, like I've already stated, we use your poor criteria for comparison, in which case all functions could be reduced to the level of "similarity" you claim.

    I admit that I used "sloppy phrasing," but I wasn't wrong in what I stated. Read the two descriptions I've linked you. How are they the same?
    "Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
    —Bonaparte

  5. #75
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post


    You are misunderstanding the point I was attemtping to make. I take the blame for paying little attention to my wording, but I stand by what I've typed. In the former, where I asserted that they aren't the same process at all, I was referring to the entire operation overall. In the latter, where I attempted to clarify, I was referring to the different processes within Si and Ni. The complete functions aren't the same at all, unless, like I've already stated, we use your poor criteria for comparison, in which case all functions could be reduced to the level of "similarity" you claim.

    I admit that I used "sloppy phrasing," but I wasn't wrong in what I stated. Read the two descriptions I've linked you. How are they the same?
    I understand what your point was; it was just kind of silly.

    With your poor understanding of Ni/Si and the unjust bias you have (had?) towards Ni and against Si, you failed and/or were reluctant to see any similarities between the two (God forbid that your mystical, pure genius, sophisticated Ni is tainted by sharing any qualities with that dirty Si savage ).

    Now, with a little coaxing from other posts on the topic, it appears that you've learned a little more about the similarities between Ni/Si, and you are revamping your original assertion, so you don't have to admit fault. It's cute, but I see right through it. What's so terrible about admitting that your eyes have been opened a bit?

    And whether or not you deem this a "poor criteria for comparison" is kind of moot. The fact is that both Ni and Si do similar things (in the same way that Ti/Fi, Ne/Se, and Te/Fe do...would you like to hear the similarities that justify those function pairings as well?) in that they both gather external information and fit it with some kind of internal construct.

    If we care to fully examine our cognitive processes and how our cognitive processes differ and/or are similar to others', then these sorts of comparisons are not trivial at all (and I'd even go so far as to say that the comparison between lawn-mowers and airplanes is not trivial).

    Oh, and the links you pasted to me were nice for a superficial summary of these two functions, but one should hope that after several months on this forum discussing typology, I've read a little more into the functions than those short paragraphs. And if we're going to trade web information regarding the functions, I'd suggest this site:

    The Lenore Thomson Exegesis Wiki
    Last edited by teslashock; 03-24-2010 at 10:41 PM.

  6. #76
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post

    OK, so I'm pretty sure both Si and Ni are about anticipating things before they happen, whereas Ne and Se are about reacting to things while they happen. So both Si and Ni draw on the past, and both Si and Ni predict the future - but they don't share the same focus.
    +1 for that insightful comparison

    Ancipating (ie, expecting) is the keyword here.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Introverted Sensation is about physical anticipation - you can "feel" the physical outcome of something before actually experiencing it, because you're drawing from and reliving a rich database of past sensations. You feel sick when looking at a piece of food because the food looks or smells like a bad experience you've had in the past. You haven't actually tasted the food, and other people might think that there's nothing wrong with the food, but you're still convinced that it will be bad for you.
    The above sounds like some type of obsessive/paranoid disorder, rather than a function.

  8. #78
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The above sounds like some type of obsessive/paranoid disorder, rather than a function.
    Tbh that's an extreme example that's meant to clarify how Si differs from Ni. When taken to any sort of unhealthy extreme, Introverted Perception is going to illicit very insular, paranoid behaviour.
    Hello

  9. #79
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Tbh that's an extreme example that's meant to clarify how Si differs from Ni. When taken to any sort of unhealthy extreme, Introverted Perception is going to illicit very insular, paranoid behaviour.
    So you consciously chose to create an unhealthy extreme to "enhance" understanding.
    I see.

    What's next, coffins?

  10. #80
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    So you consciously chose to create an unhealthy extreme to "enhance" understanding.
    I see.

    What's next, coffins?
    :workout:
    Hello

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