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  1. #181
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Nah, I'm actually with ya. When I first joined this forum I was much more into trying to make sense of all of it, and come up with a definitive way all of it works for *everyone*, no exceptions, but gave up on that and now could care less. Personally I think micro-analyzing every single behavior/thought in either yourself or another, and ascribing a specific function or set of functions to it, can become counterproductive and then it can become quite easy to throw the functions that are 'supposed' to be applicable when in fact that simply might not be the case and the entire theory is being used in ways it shouldn't be used. You end up viewing the entire complexity of human psychology through a very narrow lens of 8 functions.

    *off soapbox*
    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post


    Thank you.

    I feel frustrated by this fact, like some of these people are missing out on sooooooo much, and by sooooooo much I mean the bigger picture which includes all of the smaller pictures and all of the micro and macro-dynamics therein, because they are too busy trying to fit whatever they are seeing into eight neat and tidy functional boxes, because they are too steadfast into making this a perfect system even when inherent flaws to said system are staring them smackdab in the face.

    There exists infinite complexity to life and to human beings, and many of these complexities are intricate or nuanced, or both, or neither.

    Regardless, yes, I do identify myself as an ENFP, but I also identify myself as so much more!!!

    My being an ENFP is just one aspect to the collective whole that is myself, that is my identity.

    When I wake up in the morning, and go outside, and greet a beautiful day, while noticing spring is finally here, and so many flowers are suddenly in bloom, I don't think, damn, it feels good to be an ENFP, or hmmm, the reason why I am appreciating this moment is because of my Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    As part of my "grow your own Fi at home project" I have been trying very hard not to think in functions. Even before functions I could always watch and understand/predict people very well. The functions made it a mathematical symphony to layer on top of the MBTI knowledge set I already had. The patterns are incredibly simple once you get the hang of it.

    But people became just a puzzle to solve, not beautiful individuals to cherish.

    I have been trying to "feel" people instead of "think" them recently and what I have found-There is a depth missing if you you only think in functions-you are right-there isnt quite enough information for some reason....maybe later I'll catch up on my "thinking" but for now I am content to "feel" folks for awhile-that feeling-of either Fi or Fe variety-is a thing of beauty.
    I'm just going to respond to all of you at once, since you are all basically saying the same thing. I'm not sure you are referring to me when you say "people" but it really doesn't matter.

    I am totally with you SS, on the many different ways to explain why we are the way we are! I'm totally into evolutionary biology, psychology, life circumstance, etc., etc., etc. I see the ideas that Jung proposed intriguing and worth contemplating, simple as that. MBTI theory came from it, and I find the archetypes fascinating and helpful when it comes to interacting with others.

    The personal reason I am obsessed with this, is because I am a purist, mentally and physically; I like to live and understand the essence of things. When I find some tendril of a thought that tickles something in me, I simply want to understand it from the inside out, to be an expert at it. To fully understand something to the depth that I desire, I have to break it down, then build it back up. What you are seeing, in my posts at least in this thread, is the deduction process with typology theory as Jung and others have proposed it. It's really no different than understanding any theory(ies) that you may be interested in.

    What I find interesting is that you jump to the conclusion that I (or whoever you are referring to) think(s) in this way only; that I ascribe everything to type theory. This couldn't be further from the truth! If I don't focus in, I might either take something for granted, or miss something, which would be anathema to full insight and understanding. I personally (wouldn't dream of saying you are referring to me of course ) don't miss out on much in life. My day is filled with richness and simple living; ironically made more so by letting my mind and imagination run free with questioning insights of those who have come before me, and those who exist with me.

    If you guys don't desire to do this, or if you find it annoying, that is very interesting. Do you usually get annoyed when someone delves into an issue deeply? Why do you find this sort of pure intellectual pursuit so offensive?
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  2. #182
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    If you guys don't desire to do this, or if you find it annoying, that is very interesting. Do you usually get annoyed when someone delves into an issue deeply? Why do you find this sort of pure intellectual pursuit so offensive?
    Actually I don't find it offensive, I was just stating my own views of it, as a counterpoint, as I related to what Silly Sapienne wrote - that's all.

    I do understand the dissection element, and wanting to understand all of the cognitive functions and how they might tie together; assumed though that it would still be ok for those who don't entirely agree with the degree of what's being discussed to post/share thoughts. Not a big deal on my end.

    Edit: Wasn't directed at you, it's just a general thing on this site - some people hold to function theory very loosely and don't pay it much attention, others are on the other end and try to tie functions to everything. It's two approaches that are pretty evident on this site - as a general thing. I can see why both are alluring.
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  3. #183
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Actually I don't find it offensive, I was just stating my own views of it, as a counterpoint, as I related to what Silly Sapienne wrote - that's all.

    I do understand the dissection element, and wanting to understand all of the cognitive functions and how they might tie together; assumed though that it would still be ok for those who don't entirely agree with the degree of what's being discussed to post/share thoughts. Not a big deal on my end.
    Understood. But this thread is all about looking into the differences between Ni and Si. It's not about asking whether the functions represent every experience we have or will have in life. I would find it interesting, and more applicable, if you and others spoke more to the functions and how you experience them. But, I agree, it's really no big deal, and definitely not something everyone wants to delve into.
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  4. #184
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    What I find interesting is that you jump to the conclusion that I (or whoever you are referring to) think(s) in this way only; that I ascribe everything to type theory. This couldn't be further from the truth! If I don't focus in, I might either take something for granted, or miss something, which would be anathema to full insight and understanding. I personally (wouldn't dream of saying you are referring to me of course ) don't miss out on much in life. My day is filled with richness and simple living; ironically made more so by letting my mind and imagination run free with questioning insights of those who have come before me, and those who exist with me.

    If you guys don't desire to do this, or if you find it annoying, that is very interesting. Do you usually get annoyed when someone delves into an issue deeply? Why do you find this sort of pure intellectual pursuit so offensive?
    That is an interesting approach.

    Usually if a number of people get a wrong idea about me (or I think they're having an idea about me even if they're not specifically directing something at me), I ask myself, "Hmmm, why are they thinking that? What are you doing, Jen, that might be projecting the attitude that multiple people are perceiving?"

    I have to monitor myself first, check myself. I usually do not assume that someone else is just "annoyed" with me as an issue of their own or that they find offense in my (IMO) pure motivations, there could easily be a communication issue or maybe even a misperception on my part (if not theirs as well).

    I need to try to see myself through their eyes, in good faith, and see if there's a reason they're perceiving me as they do, as part of working through the issues and then bridging the apparent communication gap.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  5. #185
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That is an interesting approach.

    Usually if a number of people get a wrong idea about me (or I think they're having an idea about me even if they're not specifically directing something at me), I ask myself, "Hmmm, why are they thinking that? What are you doing, Jen, that might be projecting the attitude that multiple people are perceiving?"

    I have to monitor myself first, check myself. I usually do not assume that someone else is just "annoyed" with me as an issue of their own or that they find offense in my (IMO) pure motivations, there could easily be a communication issue or maybe even a misperception on my part (if not theirs as well).

    I need to try to see myself through their eyes, in good faith, and see if there's a reason they're perceiving me as they do, as part of working through the issues and then bridging the apparent communication gap.
    I can only be myself. If someone is annoyed, you know that is their own issue, not mine. Something I am doing indeed might be triggering them, but it is up to them to take responsibility for it. You cannot out therapize me, Jennifer.

    Look, I know what you are saying. I hear you loud and clear. Just as I heard sim loud and clear, and jag loud and clear. I am used to standing alone. You must understand being misunderstood and unliked is a daily experience, nearly, for me. I am weird and I own that. If I am going to worry about offending others or others' perceptions of me with my convoluted insights and ramblings (unless I have been rude or inappropriate) I will not ever partake in life, nor think the way I think.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  6. #186
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Gah-humbug, I'm at work, and thus am typing this on my crapberry.

    A.) Let it be known that I was not thinking about you, aphrodite.

    B.) Let it also be known that I came to the conclusion that some people just like or prefer to use functional analysis as a means of labelling human behavior, and that's cool.

    If there is anything I absolutely love to do with my free time is to wax philosophize, reflect, analyze and understand human beings and human nature.

    There are two individuals that immediately come to mind that I get into indepth conversations with regarding life and human beings, one being an intp and the other being an istp. Neither of these individuals give much credence to typology/mbti yet the conversations we have procure so much insight devoid of typological "constraints"

    I guess I'm just a humanist.

    And I find any doctrine/theory used to employ or direct thoughts/ideas to be restricting.

    I'm big into integrating interdisciplinary thoughts/theories/ideas into my world view.

    I guess my frustration comes from observing what I view to be highly intelligent folks using and believing in typology to a dogmatic/religious extent. But, then again, that's their prerogative.

    What's really silly is that it all comes down to the fact that I don't fully agree with the 8 labels.

    But I have come across some awesome definitions/explanations/theories regarding these arbitrary labels.

    When I get some time alone, I'll expound on what I think regarding N-ness, irrespective of whether it is introverted or extroverted.

    And what you (pl.) call Si.

    Which is really storing experiences via your memory and using that to understand and or predict current or future similar experiences.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  7. #187
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    I'm big into integrating interdisciplinary thoughts/theories/ideas into my world view.

    Smart girl.

  8. #188
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    kk, quick quick.

    Regarding typology and functions.

    When I was a child I thought I was psychic.

    When I was a bit older and found out about this thing called intuition, I immediately became obsessed, that was exactly what I used/did/had, I would frequently intuit information.

    Also, I've been extremely empathetic my whole life, and upon learning that word, empathy, I discovered that I was and had always been empathetic.

    So, during my teens and early adulthood, I would label myself as an Empath and an Intuitive, all pre-MBTI.

    I gotta go, but I hope my above statements illustrate my point, hahahaha, if I even have one. :P

    Lastly, how much of what we are discussing has to do with pattern recognition, memory, recall, imagination, empathy, deductive and inductive reasoning, mental processing, ToM, etc. ?

    I guess what irks me the most about typology is that it classifies people as being intuitives where I would not.

    Gah, wish I could explain more, but I gots to work. :zzz:
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  9. #189
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    Random thought:

    Since all archetypes with Ni in their 4 primary functions also have Se in their 4 primary functions, could we speculate that Ni synthesized immediate sensory details through Se to subconsciously project a future trend or outcome?

    Meanwhile, all archetypes with Si in their first 4 primary functions also have Ne in their first primary functions. So Ne projects a slew of potential trends or outcomes from a singular sensory detail through Si?

    To me it seems that Ni and Si are two sides of the same coin. That is, Ni synthesizes a novel future projection, while Si retains a nostalgic past experience.

  10. #190
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    So, you're saying we can, and do, give in to our dominant, but if we don't we can be more well-rounded?
    I'm saying it's called the dominant because in Jung's mind it wore a leather mask. And there's no other reason to call it dominant. I mean, like, it's a coincidence that people with introverted dominant functions are introverts. And extroverts--it's just one of those freak accidents that they have extroverted dominant functions too. And people with dominant judging functions, it's just happenstance that they judge first and perceive second. And so on.

    No one becomes well-rounded by contradicting their function order. They become stressed, anxious, and dissatisfied with the overall direction of their lives. But none of that precludes them from functioning well enough, even successfully enough to be proud of themselves.

    But likewise, no one becomes especially well-rounded by sticking religiously to their function order. The sheer range and depth of stupid, megalomaniac shit people say that to them sounds normal because they're protecting their dominant interests.... look over the last two or so pages in this thread and you will see excellent examples.

    No, people become well-rounded by catering consciously enough to their dominant function followed by their auxiliary function that they begin to see where the limits of those functions lie. They first begin knowing about what information they need and what judgments they make, so they can start actively choosing to find enough of that kind of information and actively choosing to attend to the quality of their decisions. And as they get good at this process, they'll come to know more about where their decisions don't apply and what other kinds of information exist out there in the world. And they'll start looking around for the things they've been uninterested in thus far. Accessing and coordinating this kind of process remains the intended purpose of MBTI testing.




    So-o-o-o... anyway... what is it that Si doms really do behind closed doors? And the Si auxes, how about them? Those two groups together, they're like, what, a minority population at best, yeah? What's up with that?
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