User Tag List

First 81617181920 Last

Results 171 to 180 of 258

  1. #171
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    4,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I definitely know I'm not that good at using T, my N (and I'm still not gelled on my use of Ne yet, saving that for later ) is what crunches most everything I do and think, I'm coming to realize. F is my m.o. for sure. But until I know whether most of us use the tert in the same or opposite position of the dominant, it will drive me crazy and I don't feel like I (we) can delve much further into function theory. Because if we don't even fucking really know what function we are using, and using well and poorly, we can't then really understand how they work in us, because we are likely to mislabel them or think this function 'x' is being recalled here, when it's really function 'y.'
    You might like to consider the idea that dominant functions dominate. That those people who have one will recognisably organise their lives and expressions to make sure their dominant function has right of way. There is in the broader sweep of things no hope--it would seem--of generally and consistently engaging the lesser functions well without engaging the dominant function. One can live a life that contradicts one's function order and ultimately acquire quite a range of successful behaviours that privilege other parts of the self without one overall being noticeably crippled, and indeed if that is one's choice, then that is the way it must be, and... well, no, I don't think there actually is a suitable "but" to install at the end of this sentence--people go where they're going.

    Hmmm... I wonder... if one has a determinate function order, a life organised to maximise the use of that order in that order will be less stressful and will include direct potential for specific growth. It could sound almost like a moral imperative. (And if we assume that types do NOT derive some of their "natural" leanings toward certain values from the drive to accomodate their function order, we're fooling ourselves.) But still... those people who for whatever reason wish to break the privilege of their order, and perhaps accomodate environmental demands--toughen up, be managerial, be softer, be more arty, says my mother, says my school, begs my family--...


    ... if function orders are real, that is. And if functions have a determinate character.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  2. #172
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    MBTI
    INfj
    Enneagram
    451 sx/so
    Socionics
    ENFj Ni
    Posts
    5,651

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    You might like to consider the idea that dominant functions dominate. That those people who have one will recognisably organise their lives and expressions to make sure their dominant function has right of way. There is in the broader sweep of things no hope--it would seem--of generally and consistently engaging the lesser functions well without engaging the dominant function. One can live a life that contradicts one's function order and ultimately acquire quite a range of successful behaviours that privilege other parts of the self without one overall being noticeably crippled, and indeed if that is one's choice, then that is the way it must be, and... well, no, I don't think there actually is a suitable "but" to install at the end of this sentence--people go where they're going.
    So, you're saying we can, and do, give in to our dominant, but if we don't we can be more well-rounded? I think that's obvious to all. It still doesn't mean that we can't understand how it all works.


    Hmmm... I wonder... if one has a determinate function order, a life organised to maximise the use of that order in that order will be less stressful and will include direct potential for specific growth. It could sound almost like a moral imperative. (And if we assume that types do NOT derive some of their "natural" leanings toward certain values from the drive to accomodate their function order, we're fooling ourselves.) But still... those people who for whatever reason wish to break the privilege of their order, and perhaps accomodate environmental demands--toughen up, be managerial, be softer, be more arty, says my mother, says my school, begs my family--...
    So, you're saying it's folly to think we don't use other than our preferred functions? I'd totally agree, but I still think it's important to understand how our preferred functions work, don't you? If not, you might not be a functionite. Of course, using all functions, and using them well, makes us more well-rounded and WISE.

    I desire to understand, at a microscopic level, functions. I already know that I do this, and I desire to do this. It's what I'm interested in.....right now.

    edit: to your edit: that's what i'm trying to determine.
    Ni/Ti/Fe/Si
    4w5 5w4 1w9
    ~Torah observant, Christ inspired~
    Life Path 11

    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  3. #173
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Am I the only one who finds it suspect that we use eight relatively arbitrary functions to ascribe ALL human behavior to?!?!



    It's actually kinda funny.

    I could sit here and explain myself in (at the top of my head) four legitimate ways. All of which stem from two categories, that of genetics and environmental factors.

    1.) I am the way I am and I do the things I do because of the world I was raised in. (environmental)

    2.) I am the way I am and I do the things I do because of who I've always been, and what I've always thought, and how I've always felt, and how I've always responded to my circumstance. (genetic)

    3.) I do the things I do, and I engage in the thought/feeling patterns I do because of past trauma. (psychological/environmental/genetic)

    4.) I do the things I do, and am attracted to the guys I am because I am 27 year old, relatively attractive, fertile heterosexual female human being. (Evolutionary/biological/genetic/psychological)

    5.) Whenever I watch someone get beat up, I cringe, and feel/imagine as though it's happening to me. (empathy/mirror neurons)

    Honestly, the list can go on and on, and I can also explain a lot of things about myself due to the fact that I am an ENFP with Ne Fi Te Si, but that is like a quaternary-level explanation, and I can respect that, to a degree.

    But it just frightens me, the willingness of all these highly intelligent members to put all human behaviors and tendencies into these boxes, to an extreme.

    Granted, I do not know that much at all about functional analysis, my hunger for human understanding of self, and others has stemmed from my reading and studying psychology, biology, literature, hell, from just plain observing and taking in human life, and all that it creates and destroys in its wake.

    It just freaks me out, and annoys me a little when people try to stuff things in boxes, that's all I guess.

    Though, I've just realized, many of you aren't really stuffing, you're rather taking human behaviors, noticing them, observing them, analyzing them, defining them, and then labelling them.

    So I guess this is your labelling system, fair enough.

    *gets off soap box*

    Label on.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  4. #174
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    Am I the only one who finds it suspect that we use eight relatively arbitrary functions to ascribe ALL human behavior to?!?!

    )
    Nah, I'm actually with ya. When I first joined this forum I was much more into trying to make sense of all of it, and come up with a definitive way all of it works for *everyone*, no exceptions, but gave up on that and now could care less. Personally I think micro-analyzing every single behavior/thought in either yourself or another, and ascribing a specific function or set of functions to it, can become counterproductive and then it can become quite easy to throw the functions that are 'supposed' to be applicable when in fact that simply might not be the case and the entire theory is being used in ways it shouldn't be used. You end up viewing the entire complexity of human psychology through a very narrow lens of 8 functions.

    *off soapbox*
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  5. #175
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    You end up viewing the entire complexity of human psychology through a very narrow lens of 8 functions.


    Thank you.

    I feel frustrated by this fact, like some of these people are missing out on sooooooo much, and by sooooooo much I mean the bigger picture which includes all of the smaller pictures and all of the micro and macro-dynamics therein, because they are too busy trying to fit whatever they are seeing into eight neat and tidy functional boxes, because they are too steadfast into making this a perfect system even when inherent flaws to said system are staring them smackdab in the face.

    There exists infinite complexity to life and to human beings, and many of these complexities are intricate or nuanced, or both, or neither.

    Regardless, yes, I do identify myself as an ENFP, but I also identify myself as so much more!!!

    My being an ENFP is just one aspect to the collective whole that is myself, that is my identity.

    When I wake up in the morning, and go outside, and greet a beautiful day, while noticing spring is finally here, and so many flowers are suddenly in bloom, I don't think, damn, it feels good to be an ENFP, or hmmm, the reason why I am appreciating this moment is because of my Fi.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #176
    Crazy Diamond Billy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    1,196

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Talionis View Post
    I can see why some may consider them similar, but they really aren't, apart from their initial intake of information and data.

    Read this and compare:

    Introverted Sensing
    Introverted iNtuiting

    Many of the different functions can be compared in the manner in which you do, such as Fi and Ti, yet I wouldn't consider them similar at all.
    Meh I would say that Si is a lawnmower cutting in a straight line, whereas Ni is 10 lawnmowers cutting in circles. Both have strengths and weaknesses.

    One gets the job done efficiently, the other might cut the grass a little closer but take much longer and take some really odd directions.
    Ground control to Major Tom

  7. #177
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post
    When I wake up in the morning, and go outside, and greet a beautiful day, while noticing spring is finally here, and so many flowers are suddenly in bloom, I don't think, damn, it feels good to be an ENFP, or hmmm, the reason why I am appreciating this moment is because of my Fi.
    As part of my "grow your own Fi at home project" I have been trying very hard not to think in functions. Even before functions I could always watch and understand/predict people very well. The functions made it a mathematical symphony to layer on top of the MBTI knowledge set I already had. The patterns are incredibly simple once you get the hang of it.

    But people became just a puzzle to solve, not beautiful individuals to cherish.

    I have been trying to "feel" people instead of "think" them recently and what I have found-There is a depth missing if you you only think in functions-you are right-there isnt quite enough information for some reason....maybe later I'll catch up on my "thinking" but for now I am content to "feel" folks for awhile-that feeling-of either Fi or Fe variety-is a thing of beauty.

  8. #178
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post


    When I wake up in the morning, and go outside, and greet a beautiful day, while noticing spring is finally here, and so many flowers are suddenly in bloom, I don't think, damn, it feels good to be an ENFP, or hmmm, the reason why I am appreciating this moment is because of my Fi.
    Well, there's that.

    And this is a good example, because I relate 100% to it and I don't share any of your cognitive functions. So I'd either have to use my different functions to explain the same thing or I in fact utilize all. Or it really doesn't matter whatsoever and we shouldn't be using functions - at all - to describe many aspects of who we are. The functions themselves when kept in the background - as cognitive processes/thinking/perceiving modes - are fairly straightforward - it's when you start trying to attribute them to every aspect of existence that it becomes utterly silly imo.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  9. #179
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    9,849

    Default

    You can both feel and think about people simultaneously!!!

    That's what I've been doing my whole life, in fact, that's what I love to do!

    When I am not directly feeling something inside myself, and or regarding someone or something else, I am thinking about stuff, life, my life, and people, people, people!

    Why they do the things they do, why I do the things I do.

    And, when I feel, it is not as though my brain temporarily shuts down, c'mon now!!!

    To be flooded with emotions, I admit/concede, yes, one does get temporarily cognitively impaired, but with just enough emotional stimulus, i.e. feeling, one's thoughts are triggered and depending on how stimulating the information/circumstance one's confronted with is, one's thoughts and feelings can engage in a beautiful exploratory and enlightening dance where one discovers new things, at a deeper more rich level of understanding.

    Some of you might want to label that Ne+Fi, well go ahead if that sates your urge to keep your lovely system intact, and perfect, but i just call that *human nature*.

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #180
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    953 sp/so
    Posts
    5,708

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillySapienne View Post


    Thank you.

    I feel frustrated by this fact, like some of these people are missing out on sooooooo much, and by sooooooo much I mean the bigger picture which includes all of the smaller pictures and all of the micro and macro-dynamics therein, because they are too busy trying to fit whatever they are seeing into eight neat and tidy functional boxes, because they are too steadfast into making this a perfect system even when inherent flaws to said system are staring them smackdab in the face.

    There exists infinite complexity to life and to human beings, and many of these complexities are intricate or nuanced, or both, or neither.

    Regardless, yes, I do identify myself as an ENFP, but I also identify myself as so much more!!!

    My being an ENFP is just one aspect to the collective whole that is myself, that is my identity.

    When I wake up in the morning, and go outside, and greet a beautiful day, while noticing spring is finally here, and so many flowers are suddenly in bloom, I don't think, damn, it feels good to be an ENFP, or hmmm, the reason why I am appreciating this moment is because of my Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    As part of my "grow your own Fi at home project" I have been trying very hard not to think in functions. Even before functions I could always watch and understand/predict people very well. The functions made it a mathematical symphony to layer on top of the MBTI knowledge set I already had. The patterns are incredibly simple once you get the hang of it.

    But people became just a puzzle to solve, not beautiful individuals to cherish.

    I have been trying to "feel" people instead of "think" them recently and what I have found-There is a depth missing if you you only think in functions-you are right-there isnt quite enough information for some reason....maybe later I'll catch up on my "thinking" but for now I am content to "feel" folks for awhile-that feeling-of either Fi or Fe variety-is a thing of beauty.
    Upon coming to a river, a man might need to build a raft to cross it. All sorts of effort might go into building the raft.

    Having crossed the river, it is ridiculous to think that the man should continue to carry the raft with him. The raft has served its purpose. it is also ridiculous to say that the man should never have built the raft: he needed to cross the river. (Yeah yeah, he could swim ... gimme a break, here, OK? Let us presume piranhas or some such. *sigh*)

    MBTI is the raft. It helps you get from point A to point B. How could I investigate Fi without knowing what it is, that it is even there, or how it relates to anything else?

    Having arrived at Fi, I need to explore it for myself. I shouldn't carry around the raft of technical definitions, anymore.

    When I want to go investigate other places along the river, I'll go get my MBTI raft and navigate to Ne or Ti or maybe even Se, and see what I find there.

    Or I might want to lend the raft to a friend, to help others cross the river.

    But the raft is just the means, not the end.

Similar Threads

  1. Ni vs. Si comparative Ni TEST
    By musttry in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 136
    Last Post: 04-07-2010, 10:36 AM
  2. Ni vs. Si comparative Si TEST
    By musttry in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 03-30-2010, 11:35 AM
  3. Ni vs Si, and more
    By Cimarron in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-19-2009, 11:58 AM
  4. Ni and Si Doms: What does the internal world look like?
    By BlueScreen in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-26-2009, 06:01 PM
  5. Ni and Si
    By run in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-05-2009, 11:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO