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Thread: What Function?

  1. #1
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    Question What Function?

    I am still learning about the functions and how they work.
    So I am going to present 2 reactions a hypotheical situation
    to see if I understand what function would be at play.
    I am curious, so please bear with me and my ignorance.

    The scenario is this.

    You are stuck for a place to live, for whatever reason.
    Your cousin with whom you are quite close and who has a sense of family duty, offers you to come stay at his place while you get back on your feet or are in a postion to get your own place.
    He is married. His wife has obviously agreed to let you stay. However once you are there, it becomes apparent that having agreed or not, she is less than thrilled with your presense and she is not always able to hide his displeasure. This manifests itself in a number of ways, mostly in classic passive agressive behaviors. However since there was never any direct confrontation by either side, You are left to guess what might be bothering your cousin's partner.
    However it bothers you enough that you leave.

    Reaction one..

    You are very bitter about the whole situation. You place all the blame on her. You consider her spiteful and full of malice. You take everything really personally.. and even a year or so later still can't get over how she mistreated you. You have even come up with a pet nick name for her ( not endearing) whenever you talk about the subject .
    As far as you know you never stepped out of line or behaved poorly, and this is probabaly true because you are a decent person.
    You are just sure his wife had it in for you since day one.

    This reaction is:
    1-Fe
    2-Fi
    3-Neither
    4-Another fucntion

    Reaction two.

    You are extremly uncomfortable and yeah she is being a bit of a bitch.
    But you reason that maybe your cousin kind of forced the idea on her and she wasn't happy about it, but in the name of compromise with her partner, agreed. This does not excuse her poor manners ,but you understand.
    You also reason that it is probabaly not personal (even if it is) because, your being there is upsetting the flow and dynamics of the household .That is what happens when new situations are introduced into estbalished routines sometimes.. Not everybody deals well with change or having someone they don't really know sharing such intimate space and moments that only occur in your home.
    You might be bitter and pissed off.. But you do not hold it against the person nor take it personally. You also consider that although you behaved well, to best of your knowledge , you still might have crossed some line or broke some unwritten rule.
    But you'll never know because you are too polite( Afraid of confrontation)?? to bring it up.

    This reaction is:
    1-Fe
    2-Fi
    3-Neither
    4-Another Fucntion

    If you have come this far.. Thank you..
    Please feel free to educate me

  2. #2
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    I would say the first is Fi and the latter is Fe.

  3. #3
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    some thoughts after the first paragraph: they say in the end people will forget everything about you, except how you made them feel. i believe this is true for all types. also all types have both variants of feeling, one being in the shadow. i will disagree with everyone who says such emotional reaction must indicate active usage of Fi. but i will not say, that it must be Fe either.

    given how imprecise people usually write about emotional matters, i would not even try to create a precise analysis of your words, some of which may sound more like Fi or Fe.

    some thoughts after the second paragraph:

    the short answer is, that this is a projection of Fi that results from suppression of Fi logic.
    her standpoint is Fi-ish or looks that way in your view (i assumed you write about yourself), even though you say she tried to hide it. and you are unable to share her view emotionally, but fear and hate it instead.

    1) now the problem is, that active Fe usage will typically suppress and project Fi

    but that is not the only possible explanation because
    2) sometimes Fi is suppressing it self
    (which depends on conditioning, not on type, there must be a history to cause this conditioning).

    2,5) Fi could likely share her standpoint, so there would not be a cause for projection, unless it is Fi on a narcissistic level of development, which can hold no more than one perspective.

    3) also Ti people with Fe shadow can show similar reactions.

    so we have three and a half possible explanations.

    the second part makes version 1 (Fe suppressing Fi) most likely, for instance in how you will rationally excuse her Fi, even though you are still unable to resolve your inability to share her standpoint emotionally. that is so kind of you *g*

  4. #4
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    I am still learning about the functions and how they work.
    So I am going to present 2 reactions a hypotheical situation
    to see if I understand what function would be at play.
    I am curious, so please bear with me and my ignorance.

    The scenario is this.

    You are stuck for a place to live, for whatever reason.
    Your cousin with whom you are quite close and who has a sense of family duty, offers you to come stay at his place while you get back on your feet or are in a postion to get your own place.
    He is married. His wife has obviously agreed to let you stay. However once you are there, it becomes apparent that having agreed or not, she is less than thrilled with your presense and she is not always able to hide his displeasure. This manifests itself in a number of ways, mostly in classic passive agressive behaviors. However since there was never any direct confrontation by either side, You are left to guess what might be bothering your cousin's partner.
    However it bothers you enough that you leave.

    Reaction one..

    You are very bitter about the whole situation. You place all the blame on her. You consider her spiteful and full of malice. You take everything really personally.. and even a year or so later still can't get over how she mistreated you. You have even come up with a pet nick name for her ( not endearing) whenever you talk about the subject .
    As far as you know you never stepped out of line or behaved poorly, and this is probabaly true because you are a decent person.
    You are just sure his wife had it in for you since day one.

    This reaction is:
    1-Fe
    2-Fi
    3-Neither
    4-Another fucntion

    Reaction two.

    You are extremly uncomfortable and yeah she is being a bit of a bitch.
    But you reason that maybe your cousin kind of forced the idea on her and she wasn't happy about it, but in the name of compromise with her partner, agreed. This does not excuse her poor manners ,but you understand.
    You also reason that it is probabaly not personal (even if it is) because, your being there is upsetting the flow and dynamics of the household .That is what happens when new situations are introduced into estbalished routines sometimes.. Not everybody deals well with change or having someone they don't really know sharing such intimate space and moments that only occur in your home.
    You might be bitter and pissed off.. But you do not hold it against the person nor take it personally. You also consider that although you behaved well, to best of your knowledge , you still might have crossed some line or broke some unwritten rule.
    But you'll never know because you are too polite( Afraid of confrontation)?? to bring it up.

    This reaction is:
    1-Fe
    2-Fi
    3-Neither
    4-Another Fucntion

    If you have come this far.. Thank you..
    Please feel free to educate me
    I actually have been in a situation 80% similar to this!!!

    I never reacted like #1. I reacted like #2...however on some level I am bitter. Yet I dont hate her as a person (I completely understand WHY she was mad...he had totally brought me upon the situation without her really having a say/knowing what she was getting into). That and I totally know that we stepped out of line a few times. The whole thing could have been avoided by confronting the passive aggressive behavior early on and just sitting down and putting everything out in the open. Based on later discussion with the guy (he had heard both sides of the story at some point), we both perceived the other as having a misplaced and un-caused dislike of the ourselves. If we had known that, we would have been able to drop the "he/she started it!" and worked it out....

    On a surface level everything seemed smooth enough. I was more concerned with making sure everything continued on superficially smoothly than with actually confronting her fault or admitting my own fault. Im an ENFJ.

  5. #5
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    to clarify i was assuming that a real person is having both reactions, the first reaction being an immediate reaction (which naturally includes the shadow-conflict), the second being a typical and collected reaction (where shadow is largely removed or hidden by persona)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    some thoughts after the first paragraph: they say in the end people will forget everything about you, except how you made them feel. i believe this is true for all types. also all types have both variants of feeling, one being in the shadow. i will disagree with everyone who says such emotional reaction must indicate active usage of Fi. but i will not say, that it must be Fe either.

    given how imprecise people usually write about emotional matters, i would not even try to create a precise analysis of your words, some of which may sound more like Fi or Fe.

    some thoughts after the second paragraph:

    the short answer is, that this is a projection of Fi that results from suppression of Fi logic.
    her standpoint is Fi-ish or looks that way in your view (i assumed you write about yourself), even though you say she tried to hide it. and you are unable to share her view emotionally, but fear and hate it instead.

    1) now the problem is, that active Fe usage will typically suppress and project Fi

    but that is not the only possible explanation because
    2) sometimes Fi is suppressing it self
    (which depends on conditioning, not on type, there must be a history to cause this conditioning).

    2,5) Fi could likely share her standpoint, so there would not be a cause for projection, unless it is Fi on a narcissistic level of development, which can hold no more than one perspective.

    3) also Ti people with Fe shadow can show similar reactions.

    so we have three and a half possible explanations.

    the second part makes version 1 (Fe suppressing Fi) most likely, for instance in how you will rationally excuse her Fi, even though you are still unable to resolve your inability to share her standpoint emotionally. that is so kind of you *g*
    Just to clarify..
    I am not the person in this hypothetical situation.. I have been in similar situations .. but the situation I am talking about happened to someone else, but it does relate to me in an entirely different context.
    It is this different context that I am trying to establish a connection to the original scenario I presented.
    But I will touch on that in PM when I respond to your PM on this subject

    Thank you all for your answers.

  7. #7
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    was sort of difficult for me, to carefully read the text. as soon as i get a clue, i want to write about it, before the idea is gone *g*

  8. #8
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Either of these reactions could have to do with either function.

    Just know that Fi tends to criticize on the basis of "You hurt my feelings" while Fe tends to do it on the basis of "You've violated generally accepted behavioral standards."

    So the first reaction might be Fi, if the person in question judges the wife to be in the wrong on the basis that her behavior unduly hurt his feelings.

    Or it might be Fe, if the person judges the wife to be in the wrong on the basis that her behavior was in violation of generally accepted behavioral standards in whatever community group they belong to.


    The second reaction might also be Fi, if the person empathizes with the wife's feelings and recognizes that she might have been forced into accepting his presence and that his presence might have hurt her feelings.

    Or it might be Fe, if the person recognizes that his presence in the household violates the generally accepted behavioral standards of the wife's household/community/social group, etc.

    Remember that the difference between introverted and extroverted functions is that introverted functions evaluate the outer world in terms of the person's subjective internal standards, and that extroverted functions evaluate the person in terms of the outer world's objective external standards.

    So whether the reaction has to do with Fi or Fe is simply based on whether it's motivated by a subjective personal standard (MY feelings/values/beliefs) or by an objective external one (the feelings/values/beliefs of my community.)
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    Either of these reactions could have to do with either function.

    Just know that Fi tends to criticize on the basis of "You hurt my feelings" while Fe tends to do it on the basis of "You've violated generally accepted behavioral standards."

    So the first reaction might be Fi, if the person in question judges the wife to be in the wrong on the basis that her behavior unduly hurt his feelings.

    Or it might be Fe, if the person judges the wife to be in the wrong on the basis that her behavior was in violation of generally accepted behavioral standards in whatever community group they belong to.


    The second reaction might also be Fi, if the person empathizes with the wife's feelings and recognizes that she might have been forced into accepting his presence and that his presence might have hurt her feelings.

    Or it might be Fe, if the person recognizes that his presence in the household violates the generally accepted behavioral standards of the wife's household/community/social group, etc.

    Remember that the difference between introverted and extroverted functions is that introverted functions evaluate the outer world in terms of the person's subjective internal standards, and that extroverted functions evaluate the person in terms of the outer world's objective external standards.

    So whether the reaction has to do with Fi or Fe is simply based on whether it's motivated by a subjective personal standard (MY feelings/values/beliefs) or by an objective external one (the feelings/values/beliefs of my community.)
    Thanks.. this is pretty helpful and gives insight..

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