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View Poll Results: Which functions are easier to understand?

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  • Extrovert: Xe functions

    3 10.71%
  • Extrovert: Xi functions

    2 7.14%
  • Extrovert: No discernible difference

    2 7.14%
  • Introvert: Xe functions

    3 10.71%
  • Introvert: Xi functions

    6 21.43%
  • Introvert: No discernible difference

    7 25.00%
  • All cognitive functions are nonsensical

    5 17.86%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Vagrant, two things:

    1. Your description of the relationship (or, better yet, disconnect) between INTJs and INTPs is very accurate.

    The only problem is that you didn't mention that the INTJ is the correct one in that argument.

    The INTP thinks the INTJ is "in a box", simply because the INTJ won't waste his time endlessly hammering about in the one place the INTP is determined to do so -- and why should he, when there are obviously more ways to understand the subject than the single one the INTP is obsessing about? -- but, in thinking so, the INTP is really just attempting/hoping to dismiss the INTJ's accurate rebuttals so that he can go back to his tunnel-vision tinkering without feeling like his activities are any less important (because, as an INTP, by nature, he likes to endlessly tinker, and he's gunna keep on tinkering regardless of what that annoying INTJ says :P).

    But, in all reality, nothing could be further from the truth.

    The INTP is the one working within the smaller framework, trying to hammer away endlessly at the same point. The INTJ understands the INTP's point (intuitively), and sees all the problems inherent in taking just that one stance and only looking at the issue from that perspective. The INTP, conversely, thinks that the INTJ just needs to focus on the details the INTP is so happy to obsess over, and THAT THEN the INTJ would get it; but the fact of the matter is, the INTP has no perspective on the matter -- he's so deep inside the issue, so lost in the trees, that he can't see the forest for what it is.

    Being of the vastly broader framework, the INTJ is definitely not the one "in the box". He is standing outside the INTP's small little box (ornate and detailed as it may be), looking squarely at him, shaking his head at the inanity of excessive overthinking and the loss of the vast array of alternative (and important) perspectives caused by being so deeply lost inside it (Ti).

    2. Your descriptions of Ni and Ne are not very forceful. They may be (somewhat) accurate, but the expression really needs to be worked on.

  2. #22
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    p.s. I'm not saying INTPs don't serve a purpose.

    I respect them -- when they are able to see said forest, without getting so lost in the trees.

    When one can use Ti AND not get lost in it, it is an extremely powerful tool.

    Unfortunately, having Ti as their dominant function, they often can't help but get lost in it.

  3. #23
    Senior Member VagrantFarce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Vagrant, two things:

    1. Your description of the relationship (or, better yet, disconnect) between INTJs and INTPs is very accurate.
    I'd like to point out that I didn't actually write that part.

    Also, remarking that I somehow forgot to mention which one was "correct" is missing the point of the illustration, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    2. Your descriptions of Ni and Ne are not very forceful. They may be (somewhat) accurate, but the expression really needs to be worked on.
    "Not forceful enough" isn't much to work with. Could you be more specific?
    Hello

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post
    What do you see when you look at your avatar?
    I see my godlike existence.


  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    I'd like to point out that I didn't actually write that part.
    Hmmm, well, there goes my respect for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    Also, remarking that I somehow forgot to mention which one was "correct" is missing the point of the illustration, I think.
    Mayhaps...

    But that's a point I've always wanted to enumerate, and your post (or whomever's post that was) opened the door for it... I had to step in.

    Quote Originally Posted by VagrantFarce View Post
    "Not forceful enough" isn't much to work with. Could you be more specific?
    Ummm, it doesn't really do a good job conveying the essence of the matter.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lacey View Post
    Haha, no worries.

    Your comment just got me thinking...

    I said that I don't really understand Ni, but that's your dominant function as an INTJ. I mean, that must be pretty frustrating for you to hear: "I don't really understand how you think."

    I don't "get" Ni at the moment, as far as I can tell, so my brain likes to shortcut it and lump it in with Ne...it's sad how that can be my first instinct sometimes...you know, oversimplifying things.

    On a wider scale, going away from functions and into real world stuff...there are tons of viewpoints/ways of thinking/lifestyles I don't understand, meaning that there are plenty of people I don't understand.

    I'm held back by my ignorance and limited perception.

    It really frustrates me.

    I'm working on it though, I promise.
    you're cute

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    Ni does exist.

    ...

    When I use it out loud, people either think I'm baked, or that I don't know what I'm talking about.
    Ha! Precisely.

    I remember being totally sober one time (okay, I might have had a few beers) in Golden Gate Park (San Francisco's "Central Park") and describing the beautiful "flux" of a large swath of very full eucalyptus trees as they swayed in the wind, and how it was so beautiful to see the mathematics of life express itself through them, and how my otherwise very intelligent friend gave me a look of, "WTF are you talking about?", and asked if I was high (we were at a summer bluegrass festival, so it was understandable).

    Note: Yes, I have done hallucinogens in the past.

  8. #28
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    I do think Ni is difficult to understand entirely as an Ne-user. To me, Ne seems expansive and continual... it's always generating possibilities that lead away from the current focus of attention.

    Ni seems to be more connective, sudden and intermittent (at least to me). It suddenly links things from different contexts together, showing a pattern and a meaning that wasn't apparent before. I'm reminded of these trash sculptures:





    Where a seemingly random assemblage of junk suddenly has pattern and meaning when seen from the right perspective. Different pieces of information suddenly align and what appeared difficult and messy suddenly makes sense.

  9. #29
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    Fi, Fe, Se, Si and Ne were quite easy to grasp.

    Te took me a longer amount of time to truly understand as did Ni. The latter took me some time because my usage of it was deeply intertwined with Fi to which I had earlier assigned its workings.

    Ti, I'm still not entirely sure I get.

  10. #30
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Overall, I seem to grasp the concepts of introverted functions the best, whether I use them well or not. I'm always revisiting the concepts of extraverted functions, and I feel like I'm missing something when I think about how they work; that I'm not thinking expansively enough.


    Haha, that might point to weak Ne; thinking abstractly about functions, and wondering if I'm 'seeing' everything.
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