User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 85

  1. #1
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    752

    Default Type Theory Hasn't Conquered All Because...

    A colleague and I were discussing what it would take to make type theory as accepted as, say, multiple intelligences. In spite of posts to the contrary, after all there are now over 11,000 bibliography entries on type theory, a preponderance of which validate the theory and the effectiveness of using it (CAPT: Training, Books, Research for MBTI, Archetypes, Leadership, Psychological Type.)

    She pointed out that with the competing theories, someone is always lower in the pecking order, or there is a "right" or "wrong" way to be. Which are the best intelligences? Logical/mathematical, right? Look at funding/pay/other measures and there's a hierarchy. The Five-Factor Model...one end of each trait is associated with mental health issues, if you read the writings of those who created the NEO-PI. Most models show "THE WAY" to lead, etc.

    But with type theory, there are 16 normal ways to be with their own strengths and gifts. The best decisions are made when all four functions are considered: S, N, T, F. We always need the input of others because our skills with their preferences will never be as great as theirs. In fact, as we move toward individuation we become more aware of our shortcomings, not, as some people hint, fully developed.

    Type theory says, "We hold different views...and yours may be just as legitimate as mine. Let's compare our perceptions and share the rationale behind our judgments." It usually involves compromise or a complete revision of what we thought we knew. Human nature rails against both. It's easier to accept theories that say, "I'm right; you're a jerk."

    I at least thought this has some merit. I'd put bets most of Congress has taken the MBTI at some point in business school or something and has managed to conveniently forget anything they learned about constructive use of differences...
    edcoaching

  2. #2
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    A colleague and I were discussing what it would take to make type theory as accepted as, say, multiple intelligences. In spite of posts to the contrary, after all there are now over 11,000 bibliography entries on type theory, a preponderance of which validate the theory and the effectiveness of using it (CAPT: Training, Books, Research for MBTI, Archetypes, Leadership, Psychological Type.)...
    The fact that 11,000 people seem to believe MBTI is effective does not mean that it truly is. Every major religion of the world can claim an even higher number of supporters, but that does not mean that all of the teachings of those religions are true.



    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    But with type theory, there are 16 normal ways to be with their own strengths and gifts. The best decisions are made when all four functions are considered: S, N, T, F. We always need the input of others because our skills with their preferences will never be as great as theirs. In fact, as we move toward individuation we become more aware of our shortcomings, not, as some people hint, fully developed.])...
    It is true that MBTI tells us something about the nature of persons, however, the question is exactly how much it tells us. Nobody is arguing that MBTI is completely useless and almost all authors educated in the subject-matter agree that the applications of MBTI have limitations. Views differ only with respect to where exactly the limitations of the system lie.


    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    I at least thought this has some merit. I'd put bets most of Congress has taken the MBTI at some point in business school or something and has managed to conveniently forget anything they learned about constructive use of differences...
    Suppose that you win your bet and most congressmen have been forced to study MBTI in their education. Does this fact show that MBTI is a good personality theory? No, in order to properly vindicate it, it would be necessary to have a clear conceptual framework and support it with empirical studies. The incoherence and vagueness of MBTI concepts has rendered such a study difficult. Unless you can make your own arguments for why MBTI describes human personality well or provide links to such arguments made by others, you're not helping matters at all. In fact, you're merely reinforcing the common view no the subject that MBTI is a simple self-help manual founded on mystical principles that seem compelling to its supporters yet untenable to outsiders. The same could be said about the leading authors on spirituality and religious propagandists.

    Here are some good questions to think about.

    1. A personality theory describes how people differ from one another, how specifically does MBTI maintain people differ from each other?
    2. Is it truly the case that people differ from one another in the respect that the MBTI theorists have in mind?
    3. Are the underlined personality differences significant? That is are the character features described by MBTI fundamental to a person's character? Why should we focus on the personality features emphasized by MBTI rather than another system, such as the BIG 5 for example?
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  3. #3
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    I honestly would hate it if this ever happened.

    I went to a job interview last week and the interviewer asked if I knew about MBTI and I had an internal eye roll that I hope did not register on my face. I then pretended to know very little about it and she told me her type and then said "Well I know I'm an extrovert, and I think I remember getting feeling or something like that but I can't remember the rest, I know there are a few other letters..." Then I got paranoid that she may be on this forum.

    If I have to use this forum as an experiment for those who know about MBTI I would say it is horribly abused and not used to overcome difference. I can especially see the I/E and S/N dichotomies being abused. I know the two phrases I see most often in job descriptions are "Must be able to work individually and as part of a team" and "Detail-oriented with the ability to see the big picture." I think the detail-oriented AND big picture would require some serious tertiary and inferior development especially for perceiving dominants: IJs and EPs.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  4. #4
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    752

    Default

    A lot of those studies have been in peer-reviewed journals and get at just the things you're citing. That was her point. The research is there. Why not use the five-factor? It presents labels that are not helpful in team building. And my point on Congress was that people are exposed to the theory yet do not go beyond self discovery for the very reason I started the post--delving deeply means admitting that other points of view are as valid as your own.
    edcoaching

  5. #5
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I honestly would hate it if this ever happened.

    I went to a job interview last week and the interviewer asked if I knew about MBTI and I had an internal eye roll that I hope did not register on my face. I then pretended to know very little about it and she told me her type and then said "Well I know I'm an extrovert, and I think I remember getting feeling or something like that but I can't remember the rest, I know there are a few other letters..." Then I got paranoid that she may be on this forum.

    If I have to use this forum as an experiment for those who know about MBTI I would say it is horribly abused and not used to overcome difference. I can especially see the I/E and S/N dichotomies being abused. I know the two phrases I see most often in job descriptions are "Must be able to work individually and as part of a team" and "Detail-oriented with the ability to see the big picture." I think the detail-oriented AND big picture would require some serious tertiary and inferior development especially for perceiving dominants: IJs and EPs.
    You'd hate if what ever happened? That people would actually learn to listen to each other?
    edcoaching

  6. #6
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    In fact, as we move toward individuation we become more aware of our shortcomings, not, as some people hint, fully developed.

    Type theory says, "We hold different views...and yours may be just as legitimate as mine. Let's compare our perceptions and share the rationale behind our judgments." It usually involves compromise or a complete revision of what we thought we knew. Human nature rails against both. It's easier to accept theories that say, "I'm right; you're a jerk."

    I at least thought this has some merit. I'd put bets most of Congress has taken the MBTI at some point in business school or something and has managed to conveniently forget anything they learned about constructive use of differences...
    @bold: agreed. In fact, I like that sentence; there's a wisdom to that.

    @purple: This is, I think, one of the best usages of MBTI. It validates at the very least that there are multiple ways of perceiving and interacting with the world and each has a credible claim to contemplation.

    At worst, people use it like some sort of divining rod, and try to wrap their world and life around the concepts. "I couldn't do that, I'm an XXXX"- type of thinking.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #7
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    5w6 so/sx
    Posts
    3,467

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    A lot of those studies have been in peer-reviewed journals and get at just the things you're citing. That was her point. The research is there..
    Where could such works be found? I've heard plenty of gossip about the existence of scientific study of MBTI, however, I have not yet come across a single one.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Member fusetah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    CAGE
    Posts
    92

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    Where could such works be found? I've heard plenty of gossip about the existence of scientific study of MBTI, however, I have not yet come across a single one.
    I'd like to know this aswell.


    Sidenote; I hear that Jungs personality types was created around the results of 100 experimental participants in Schweiz.

  9. #9
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Enneagram
    1w2
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    You'd hate if what ever happened? That people would actually learn to listen to each other?
    I'd love it if people actually listened to each other, but you don't need MBTI to learn how to do that. I understand that you're saying MBTI is another method of facilitation and I agree with that if it weren't so abused by people who use it for nothing other than to confirm their superiority to others. We've got enough of that going around based on other factors.

    You can google active listening skills and a ton of stuff comes out without even mentioning MBTI. I'd prefer those be taught as a first line than MBTI.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #10
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    7
    Posts
    752

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    I'd love it if people actually listened to each other, but you don't need MBTI to learn how to do that. I understand that you're saying MBTI is another method of facilitation and I agree with that if it weren't so abused by people who use it for nothing other than to confirm their superiority to others. We've got enough of that going around based on other factors.

    You can google active listening skills and a ton of stuff comes out without even mentioning MBTI. I'd prefer those be taught as a first line than MBTI.
    There was a study posted just today at TCRecord: Article on two types of listening and how hard it is for some people to learn the more effective one...

    Notice I don't say MBTI but type theory...handing around instruments isn't using the theory. In the hands of people who don't know what they're doing it gets abused. The theory itself holds all 16 types as equal.
    edcoaching

Similar Threads

  1. Reynierse's revised type theory
    By Seymour in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 07-02-2017, 08:30 PM
  2. Type me (once and for all)
    By King sns in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 04-29-2009, 01:36 PM
  3. Bones of type theory contention! My Te is hanging out...
    By maliafee in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-30-2009, 11:05 PM
  4. Deliberate use of type theory in fiction
    By Quinlan in forum Popular Culture and Type
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-13-2008, 09:35 AM
  5. Type Theory vs. Temperament Theory
    By proteanmix in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-19-2007, 10:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO