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  1. #21
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    But what I really started this thread over is the actual theory--that all types are created equal. Is that too radical for human beings to accept? That an overarching framework might not be a hierarchy?
    This notion is incompatible with the fundamental assumption of MBTI and the Keirsey Theorem. The system defines an Extrovert for example, as an outgoing person and an Intuitive as an imaginative individual. You may approach the issue from the perspective of temperament or define typological entities as mere cognitive tendencies and then claim that all types are created equal. This assertion would be perfectly plausible as a type merely defines how an individual's mind tends to work rather than how he necessarily acts or thinks.

    However, as an MBTI supporter, this isn't an option as doing so repudiates the majority of the literature on the subject that is concerned with personality profiles. A personality profile by definition describes an individual's fundamental qualities. Some of the qualities in MBTI are opposed to one another, hence, an individual cannot have all of them. That is why we often see an NT type description which says for example xNTx is exceptionally creative and analytical! Yet, we never see ESFJ profiles that bestow such lavish praise on the people of this type solely on the basis of their personality code. MBTI creates dichotomies where a certain four characteristics are by definition opposed to the other four.

    If all types were indeed created equal, no personality profile would be possible as all 16 of them would be saying the same thing. In summary, in a study of temperament all types could be equal, but not in MBTI.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

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  2. #22
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SolitaryWalker View Post
    This notion is incompatible with the fundamental assumption of MBTI and the Keirsey Theorem. The system defines an Extrovert for example, as an outgoing person and an Intuitive as an imaginative individual. You may approach the issue from the perspective of temperament or define typological entities as mere cognitive tendencies and then claim that all types are created equal. This assertion would be perfectly plausible as a type merely defines how an individual's mind tends to work rather than how he necessarily acts or thinks.

    However, as an MBTI supporter, this isn't an option as doing so repudiates the majority of the literature on the subject that is concerned with personality profiles. A personality profile by definition describes an individual's fundamental qualities. Some of the qualities in MBTI are opposed to one another, hence, an individual cannot have all of them. That is why we often see an NT type description which says for example xNTx is exceptionally creative and analytical! Yet, we never see ESFJ profiles that bestow such lavish praise on the people of this type solely on the basis of their personality code. MBTI creates dichotomies where a certain four characteristics are by definition opposed to the other four.

    If all types were indeed created equal, no personality profile would be possible as all 16 of them would be saying the same thing. In summary, in a study of temperament all types could be equal, but not in MBTI.
    No, I mean that the strengths of one type are just as valuable as the strengths of another type.
    edcoaching

  3. #23
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    I think that it would be interesting seeing this widely used in our daily lives. However, it could be widely misused as well.

    Instead of arguing semantics... how about we think about what would happen if everyone did use this? Like, on your ID it would display your personality type or something like that, etc. Or everyone was very keen on the theory and understood how it was applied. How would everything change? I think that everyone would understand each other a lot more, and there would be a lot less conflicts. Like, what if Typology/enneagram was a course that you could take in high school or something like that? It was something that everyone knew about.
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  4. #24
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    I think that it would be interesting seeing this widely used in our daily lives. However, it could be widely misused as well.

    Instead of arguing semantics... how about we think about what would happen if everyone did use this? Like, on your ID it would display your personality type or something like that, etc. Or everyone was very keen on the theory and understood how it was applied. How would everything change? I think that everyone would understand each other a lot more, and there would be a lot less conflicts. Like, what if Typology/enneagram was a course that you could take in high school or something like that? It was something that everyone knew about.
    And i assume you mean that everyone was taught to make constructive use of normal differences, vs. using type to label others and flaunt their own particular strengths...

    When we've taught it that way in schools--reinforcing concepts over an entire year through literature analysis, help with planning projects, etc., we found that students were kinder to each other, more understanding of teachers, and...we took the failure rate on major projects from 25% to zero (it was a high-poverty school). so I'm thinking if people actually invested the time it takes to understand ethical use, things could be good...
    edcoaching

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackCat View Post
    Like, what if Typology/enneagram was a course that you could take in high school or something like that? It was something that everyone knew about.
    Mainstream psychology and sociology would be a better subjects to mandate.

  6. #26
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Mainstream psychology and sociology would be a better subjects to mandate.
    "Mainstream" psychology is filled with contradictions, competing theories, and bad advice as well. And again quickly moves to defining normal. BTW the APA's draft of the next DSM has Introversion as a disorder...
    edcoaching

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    Actually it was 16 people in Minneapolis; that's where the first applications materials were developed
    Jung himself was in Minneapolis?

  8. #28
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Jung himself was in Minneapolis?
    No...I'm talking about applications, like how to use the theory in team building, career counseling, coaching, health care...so many of the early authors lived in Minneapolis that they used to joke that someday someone was going to figure out that all the books were written abou tthe same 16 people in Minneapolis (which was never true, just clowning...)
    edcoaching

  9. #29
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    ...all types are created equal.
    I take it that you mean that all MBTI types are created equal.

    If that is the case, then there is not a shred of evidence for the equality of MBTI types. It must be taken on blind faith, and also because it sounds good and makes us feel good.

    In fact the equality of MBTI types is a an echo of the phrase, "It is self evident that all men are created equal".

    Notice that it is self evident. There is no independent evidence whatsoever. It is sheer blind faith.

    And blind faith is demeaning for the believer and demeaning for those who offer blind faith to the vulnerable.

  10. #30
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcoaching View Post
    No, I mean that the strengths of one type are just as valuable as the strengths of another type.
    Valuable in what context? Suppose we go with the traditional MBTI reading of a type and conclude that the strength of Extroversion is having an outgoing personality and the strength of Introversion consists in having a reserved and a thoughtful character. Obviously in some contexts being reserved has greater advantages than being outgoing and vice versa. In nearly every avenue that we explore, some character qualities that MBTI associates with particular types are more valuable than others. Similarly, the MBTI reading presupposes that an Intuitive person is creative while a Sensing person is detail oriented. In some scenarios it is better to be detail oriented than imaginative and in others, vice-versa holds true.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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