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  1. #41
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    Equally interesting is the concept of "no one is around", which could lead to long definitions on space and dimensions
    Well there are those ones with the "supermodel" gene. They're not a round. More kinda flat but with bumps
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #42
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Who created the scientific theory of mathematics?
    Nobody.

    We chose the version of the number theory?
    The number theory is not an election.

    We choose our pattern of geometry yes.
    Our geometry?

    Science is not a creative faculty.
    Science is about understanding the creative faculty.

    Not an art. Science is about understanding of what is.

    Art is about creation.
    Science is discovery.
    Pure mathematics is much more like art than science. Applied mathematics is more like science than art. The foundation of applied mathematics comes from pure mathematics. Pure mathematics is created. It doesn't have to be that way. One can choose the postulates as well as the method of proof. It's not a science.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Who created the scientific theory of mathematics?
    Nobody.

    We chose the version of the number theory?
    The number theory is not an election.

    We choose our pattern of geometry yes.
    Our geometry?

    Science is not a creative faculty.
    Science is about understanding the creative faculty.

    Not an art. Science is about understanding of what is.

    Art is about creation.
    Science is discovery.
    Whether we talk about science or art or trade or craft, we are always talking about human activity.

    There is science in art, and art in science. The distinctions aren't that clear cut.

    Was Michaelangelo solely an artist? Is so why do the sculptures withstand their own weight? Why did he spend so much time studying human anatomy?

    Godel was an artist, his media was was a logical construct.

    When people creates artwork on the computer, they are manipulating logical constructs (the bits on the hard-disk), nothing more. Does that mean they are not artists, but scientists?

    When a programmer writes something that (s)he considers beautiful or poetic, (s)he is doing the same thing using a different set of modalities.

    It is the same when a mathematician creates a theory. I can create a "calculus" of bloops and bleeps if I feel like it. Whether anyone else will care is an entirely different question.

    The 15 puzzle and Rubik's cube were a little excursions in mathematics. People cared because it was fun. Other mathematicians cared little. But that does not mean there was no creation.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  4. #44
    Senior Member aeon's Avatar
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    The ideas of order and disorder speak to our ability, or lack thereof, to recognize patterns in our awareness. Anything more we cannot be certain.

    As for the tree in the forest, given that the definition of sound depends on the ability of a listener to hear, if they are not present no sound is produced, even if vibratory excitation of molecules occurs.


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  5. #45
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Whether we talk about science or art or trade or craft, we are always talking about human activity.

    There is science in art, and art in science. The distinctions aren't that clear cut.

    Was Michaelangelo solely an artist? Is so why do the sculptures withstand their own weight? Why did he spend so much time studying human anatomy?

    Godel was an artist, his media was was a logical construct.

    When people creates artwork on the computer, they are manipulating logical constructs (the bits on the hard-disk), nothing more. Does that mean they are not artists, but scientists?

    When a programmer writes something that (s)he considers beautiful or poetic, (s)he is doing the same thing using a different set of modalities.

    It is the same when a mathematician creates a theory. I can create a "calculus" of bloops and bleeps if I feel like it. Whether anyone else will care is an entirely different question.

    The 15 puzzle and Rubik's cube were a little excursions in mathematics. People cared because it was fun. Other mathematicians cared little. But that does not mean there was no creation.
    You can blur the line between science and art in such fashion but only really when you look too close.

    Though all things practical involve some understanding of the materials used and the constructions made it is not usually the focus of art to reach this understanding where as it is with science, that is why science is discovery.

    With art you are creating something to convey a certain meaning and you have carte blanch to alter what would normally be depicted to suit that message you wish to contain in it. Hence art is not as much about the discovery of a pattern but more about the interweaving of a pattern (the message or whatever) into the object created.

    As such it can be seen that in terms of focus at least the artist creates and the scientist discovers.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  6. #46
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Pure mathematics is much more like art than science. Applied mathematics is more like science than art. The foundation of applied mathematics comes from pure mathematics. Pure mathematics is created. It doesn't have to be that way. One can choose the postulates as well as the method of proof. It's not a science.
    If that is the case why do you then walk about the face of the earth and do not float in the air?
    If mathematics is an invention, as you say, you should not be gravitationally bound to a celestial object called the Earth which in turn should not be gravitationally bound to the Sun.

    Why do the celestial objects stay in their orbits? Because they are supernatural beings? After all the gods and goddeses of the ancients carry their names.
    This, however is because of another reason.

    The study of the celestial bodies and their movements brought about the science of mathematics in the Valley of the Two Rivers 5000 years ago.

    Hence the basis of mathematics is in the natural science of Astrology, the original name for Astronomy.

    This in turn is based on the movement of the solar bodies?

    A deception. The movement is not really there. The solar bodies do not move. We think they do. We "see" them moving.
    A fallacy created by our brain, the organ of sight.

    What our brains interprets as a movement is but an order of succession, the foundation of "geometric" numbers.

    Mathematics is bound by basic laws the basis of which is the order of the universe.

    Our creation?

  7. #47
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    My thoughts too. Also I've heard it was used mainly as an aid to meditation.
    However I find it amusing to try to answer literally the question.
    A different postulation?
    Is it ever?

    The vibration is there all right but does it preclude the fact that sound as such is only created by and for biological life?

  8. #48
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    You can blur the line between science and art in such fashion but only really when you look too close.

    Though all things practical involve some understanding of the materials used and the constructions made it is not usually the focus of art to reach this understanding where as it is with science, that is why science is discovery.

    With art you are creating something to convey a certain meaning and you have carte blanch to alter what would normally be depicted to suit that message you wish to contain in it. Hence art is not as much about the discovery of a pattern but more about the interweaving of a pattern (the message or whatever) into the object created.

    As such it can be seen that in terms of focus at least the artist creates and the scientist discovers.
    Well said.

    Things can only be seen at a distance.

  9. #49
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    If that is the case why do you then walk about the face of the earth and do not float in the air?
    If mathematics is an invention, as you say, you should not be gravitationally bound to a celestial object called the Earth which in turn should not be gravitationally bound to the Sun.

    Why do the celestial objects stay in their orbits? Because they are supernatural beings? After all the gods and goddeses of the ancients carry their names.
    This, however is because of another reason.

    The study of the celestial bodies and their movements brought about the science of mathematics in the Valley of the Two Rivers 5000 years ago.

    Hence the basis of mathematics is in the natural science of Astrology, the original name for Astronomy.

    This in turn is based on the movement of the solar bodies?

    A deception. The movement is not really there. The solar bodies do not move. We think they do. We "see" them moving.
    A fallacy created by our brain, the organ of sight.

    What our brains interprets as a movement is but an order of succession, the foundation of "geometric" numbers.

    Mathematics is bound by basic laws the basis of which is the order of the universe.

    Our creation?
    Based on the ideas of intellectual property you may note a pattern in a set of objects, the objects may or may not be yours but the pattern which you derive from them is yours. Is this not mathematics?

    Yes it was there to be discovered but the pattern does not exist in itself only the points upon which the pattern is based.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #50
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Things can only be seen at a distance.
    Do you ever think that we're perhaps using slightly more intuition in our thinking than is necessarily healthy?
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

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