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  1. #31
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Oh Mr Wildcat so uniquely circular and yet direct. I would compare thee to a peeler. It reveals what is beneath but it don't half go around the houses to do so

    You are correct but as in all things there are limits to your answer, for an answer is what it is with all the usual advantages and drawbacks. For example maths. Mathematics is order, it is the predictor of patterns and yet mathematics does not exists, the order it predicts does.

    As for general notes as to the nature of Mr Wildcat, he is thought not order.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #32
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Oh Mr Wildcat so uniquely circular and yet direct. I would compare thee to a peeler. It reveals what is beneath but it don't half go around the houses to do so

    You are correct but as in all things there are limits to your answer, for an answer is what it is with all the usual advantages and drawbacks. For example maths. Mathematics is order, it is the predictor of patterns and yet mathematics does not exists, the order it predicts does.

    As for general notes as to the nature of Mr Wildcat, he is thought not order.
    Yes.
    The order it predicts does.

    This is what I wanted to say.

    Thanks Xander.

  3. #33
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Yes.
    The order it predicts does.

    This is what I wanted to say.

    Thanks Xander.
    Not a problem.

    I still think we should call this kind of thinking quantum philosophy. It has a nice ring to it
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  4. #34
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Yes.
    The order it predicts does.

    This is what I wanted to say.

    Thanks Xander.
    I haven't been keeping up... but what you're all saying is that mathematics itself is a system of thoughts/theories, but that the order it tries to predict exists independently of it? You know, that actually makes a lot of sense...

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Who created the scientific theory of mathematics?
    Nobody.

    We chose the version of the number theory?
    The number theory is not an election.

    We choose our pattern of geometry yes.
    Our geometry?

    Science is not a creative faculty.
    Science is about understanding the creative faculty.

    Not an art. Science is about understanding of what is.

    Art is about creation.
    Science is discovery.
    Strangely, I have started to agree with you.

  6. #36
    no clinkz 'til brooklyn Nocapszy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Without someone to interpret mathematics and order, how is it possible for it to exist?

    If a tree falls in a forest, and there is no one around to see it fall, does it make a sound?
    Gettin' pretty sick of this kind of argument.

    Of course it makes a sound. Sound is generated by the quick and repetitious vibration of some media particles. In essence, a change in media. Just because no one is there to record it, does not in any way change the fact that the tree will cause the air to vibrate.

    What if a deaf person sees it fall? It still makes a sound. They don't hear it, they feel it, because the sound travels through the ground.

    This 'analogy' comes out of an extremely narrow definition of sound. What the person who originally made this analogy was referring to (I suspect it came originally from another language, where there was a translation mishap) was perception.

    I'm not attacking you personally ("cutting you to the quick"), I'm just so tired of hearing this.
    we fukin won boys

  7. #37
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nocapszy View Post
    Gettin' pretty sick of this kind of argument.

    Of course it makes a sound. Sound is generated by the quick and repetitious vibration of some media particles. In essence, a change in media. Just because no one is there to record it, does not in any way change the fact that the tree will cause the air to vibrate.

    What if a deaf person sees it fall? It still makes a sound. They don't hear it, they feel it, because the sound travels through the ground.

    This 'analogy' comes out of an extremely narrow definition of sound. What the person who originally made this analogy was referring to (I suspect it came originally from another language, where there was a translation mishap) was perception.

    I'm not attacking you personally ("cutting you to the quick"), I'm just so tired of hearing this.
    Now I never realised that anyone ever believed that the whole tree falling thing was a literal postulation of a question. I have been running under the belief that it was an example of existential thinking all this time.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Now I never realised that anyone ever believed that the whole tree falling thing was a literal postulation of a question. I have been running under the belief that it was an example of existential thinking all this time.
    My thoughts too. Also I've heard it was used mainly as an aid to meditation.
    However I find it amusing to try to answer literally the question.

  9. #39
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lastrailway View Post
    My thoughts too. Also I've heard it was used mainly as an aid to meditation.
    However I find it amusing to try to answer literally the question.
    Just reply "what's sound?" with one of those innocent looks. They'll either get really irritated or their eyebrows will meet in concentration
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Just reply "what's sound?" with one of those innocent looks. They'll either get really irritated or their eyebrows will meet in concentration
    Equally interesting is the concept of "no one is around", which could lead to long definitions on space and dimensions

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