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Thread: The Tertiary

  1. #41
    Rainy Day Member Ingrid in grids's Avatar
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    Can anyone offer examples for good tert. Ti vs. bad tert. Ti?

  2. #42
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Tertiary functions help to round out our personalities once we've already gotten a good handle on the auxiliary. If we skip the aux and go straight to tertiary, we run into problems.

    Good tert Ti: I can't go along with this because it's riddled with inconsistencies that violate the spirit of natural logic, and behaving illogically would threaten my ability to fulfill my duty to family/friends/community/whatever.

    Bad tert Ti (note the lack of aux Fe): I don't have to listen to you or pay attention to your ideas because your feelings are silly and illogical. I don't see any reason I should have any obligation to anyone but myself.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  3. #43
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    This may just be a tertiary F thing, but who is any more than reactively aware of their tertiary function? Anyone? I notice people talk up their tertiary functions, but can rarely if ever be inveigled to blow their inferior horn. Why is that? The inferior function is the basement bogeyman, right. It exists for dragging you to hell back onto course--if you get too far into your dominant function, the inferior kicks your ass, and if you get too far from your dominant, again, inferior kicks your ass. The tertiary is one step above the inferior and yet we all talk about it like it's accessible. That whole relief role makes it a mythologically keyed in and most important device, yeah? A source of creativity. But useable? Consciously accessible? Or just there? Present. The place you go before the basement.
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #44
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    *standing ovation*

    FUCK Fi!

    Some idiot kid whacked me the other day because he was oblivious to his surroundings. After I tried to get the kid to understand my point:
    --stop screwing around
    --even if you were sure no one was in your way, you still shouldnt be doing that
    --STFU and admit that you were an idiot

    but noooooo...his idiot mother was intent on convincing me that because "He didnt mean it", I should therefore, "just move on". How is he going to learn about minding others and his surroundings???
    My enfp son and I are like zombies. We run into doorways, trip over stuff, bump people. We are oblivious to reality. It's actually okay if one of us is in a room-but two of us? We sort of roll around, then bump each other and get little Te-pissy fits at each other. "Watch out, quit touching me!"

    Now-was the kid in your example oblivious? yes. An idiot? No. You just dismissed his entire intellectual capability off of his bumping you. From the mom's perspective I guess Fi really does judge off of intent. Motive is as important as the end result.

    For me a weird sliding scale gets implemented here. I have to judge the situation twice. My end goal typically is some Ne vision, to accomplish happy Fi weirdo feely stuff, but structured by whatever Tert Te might be.

    So I can forgive an individual's accidental screw-ups (Fi, n=1) up to the the point where they interfere with the large goal (Te)-which is typically to achieve some large amount of betterment for everyone (Fi, n=200).

    Which sounds oddly like the sorts of rationale that would lead to what appears to be Fe like behavior on the surface-ie sacrifice individuals happiness for group happiness.

    weird.

  5. #45
    Senior Member BlueFlame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    *standing ovation*

    FUCK Fi!



    Quote Originally Posted by simulatedworld View Post
    And you people think I'm rude to FPs?
    Everything is worse coming from a *T!* We NFs even insult with love.

    ---
    I think I abandoned all good use of Se. My ability to live in the moment/enjoy my surroundings is next to zero. Se just has a way of biting me in the ass. When I jump to it, I end up either OCD or anxiety-ridden, or I fail to disengage in potentially harmful situations because, hey, this guy could definitely hurt me, but I'll be fine later, so who cares? It's totally worth it.

    ~*79% Extraverted*~
    ~*74% iNtuition*~
    ~*74% Feeling*~
    ~*58% Judging*~

    Enneagram Type: SX 3w2

  6. #46
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylon Candle View Post
    *standing ovation*

    FUCK Fi!
    Now, now Babylon. Just because you can't join the cool ENFP club doesn't mean you get to hate. I'm sure you'll learn to be cool...in another life...talk with ma man Anubis for a copy of the how to.

  7. #47
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    This may just be a tertiary F thing, but who is any more than reactively aware of their tertiary function? Anyone? I notice people talk up their tertiary functions, but can rarely if ever be inveigled to blow their inferior horn. Why is that? The inferior function is the basement bogeyman, right. It exists for dragging you to hell back onto course--if you get too far into your dominant function, the inferior kicks your ass, and if you get too far from your dominant, again, inferior kicks your ass. The tertiary is one step above the inferior and yet we all talk about it like it's accessible. That whole relief role makes it a mythologically keyed in and most important device, yeah? A source of creativity. But useable? Consciously accessible? Or just there? Present. The place you go before the basement.
    I think the older you get, the more aware of other aspects of yourself you become. But yes, I agree -- it takes awhile to become aware of the tertiary.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #48
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    The worst of tertiry Fi - failing to express ones emotions, internalising them so that they build up pressure until you explode.

    The best: The ability to remain calm and centred under stress, to display nothing of the inner thought processes until ready to do so.
    Good assessment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalach View Post
    This may just be a tertiary F thing, but who is any more than reactively aware of their tertiary function? Anyone? I notice people talk up their tertiary functions, but can rarely if ever be inveigled to blow their inferior horn. Why is that? The inferior function is the basement bogeyman, right. It exists for dragging you to hell back onto course--if you get too far into your dominant function, the inferior kicks your ass, and if you get too far from your dominant, again, inferior kicks your ass. The tertiary is one step above the inferior and yet we all talk about it like it's accessible. That whole relief role makes it a mythologically keyed in and most important device, yeah? A source of creativity. But useable? Consciously accessible? Or just there? Present. The place you go before the basement.
    Yes, usable. Not just there, not anymore. See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I think the older you get, the more aware of other aspects of yourself you become. But yes, I agree -- it takes awhile to become aware of the tertiary.
    I think I was aware of my tertiary from the beginning, but that it took a while to actually learn to use it, to let it grow up and mature.

    To answer the OP:

    Bad Fi - Feeling hurt for no good reason, and not understanding why. The immature reaction is to bottle it up and/or satiate it, as seems appropriate at the time. The results are mixed.

    Good Fi - The certainty, the very certainty that convinces some people that we're arrogant assholes. It's what lets us move forward rather than stagnate in indecision. Once I understood how to obtain that certainty, anxiety ceased to be a problem.

    Mature Fi - Holy crap! A level of self-understanding that I wish I had long ago. The certainty aspect was an important first step, but it's not really certainty: it's faith. Faith that I can handle whatever comes up. No need to stress about it. It goes even further than that, though, in ways that are difficult to put into words, but shows up in concrete examples where I can write a post that describes Fi in a way that strong Fi users immediately think, "Yes! That!" That now that I know "the trick," I can just reach deep down inside, and share raw joy with others I care about, and perhaps kindle a flame of joy in their hearts.

    Heck, last night a friend told me what her friends said of me after I left her birthday party: "They said, 'Wow, he's sooo nice. I really like him. And such a great dancer, too!'" I bring this up not to brag, but to contrast. I'm not used to hearing this about myself. At all. My memory of the party was that I was mostly quiet, got in what dances I could, and occasionally got to chat. I don't feel like I interacted that much with her friends. Yet I left that kind of impression?! Wow! Go me? Wait, that isn't me! Is it? I wasn't trying to make an impression, I was just being me ...

    Just being Fi, in a good way. The faith is how I counter the random feelings of hurt. That doesn't go away. Rather than reacting in a visceral way, in a fierce, fearful way, I react with, for lack of a better word, love. I tend to the wound in myself rather than lash out at others. Sometimes the faith just instantly heals the wound: I intuitively understand that the "wound" is just the color of that particular feeling. It isn't a wrong feeling or a bad feeling, it's just a feeling, and it's trying to tell me something to which I should pay attention.

    The part that boggles me now is, if that's where I'm at now, how much deeper will that understanding be in another decade or three?


    *sits back and waits for people to tell him he isn't really INTJ*

  9. #49
    Babylon Candle Venom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    You made a big deal...out of *that*????

    Seriously, it's one thing to accidentily do something that causes real harm, it's quite another to be jumping all over someone coz they did something small that was due to momentary clumsiness. Just coz you're better at being 'present' in your surroundings, doesn't mean you get to demand the same from others and call them a moron when they fail.

    But wait..I understand...Fi isn't your strenght, I guess..maybe the mom should've realized that your weakness in fact is showing understanding to others point of view. *ponders*
    He whacked me in the face... a lil different than just bumpin into someone....

  10. #50
    Senior Member Uytuun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    *sits back and waits for people to tell him he isn't really INTJ*
    No you are...good post.

    raw joy
    yes - the raw joy is amazing

    I recognise aspects of all of those levels in me.

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