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  1. #21
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Actually I can say in the UK there is no significant difference in MBTI spread and Socio ecco group

    so roughtly speaking the same proportions exsist (ie not skewed enough to create a sigifican dif).

  2. #22
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    How do you know that?
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #23
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    I conducted primary research (for work) with a nationally represenative sample of the UK population 1000 Adults (aged 16+).

    Omnibus' have demographic questions, so MBTI classifications crossed with SEG gives me that

  4. #24
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    I read this study done by the Journal of Psychological Type in the mid-90s. "The distribution of MBTI types by ethnicity and gender in the US" Hammer A. and Mitchell WD.

    They found that African-Americans had a disproportionate amount of ISTJs and Hispanics a disproportionate amount of ESFPs compared to the rest of the American population. I wonder what accounts for those differences. Maybe SES holds a clue.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  5. #25
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    On one hand I see what you're driving at - for example, ENFPs who come from working class or poor backgrounds probably develop Te at an earlier age than ones from more affluent backgrounds, and may also seem a little less consistently fluffy and sweet - but on the other hand I think people are who they are despite socio-economic status.
    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    College graduates are more likely to put off having children. There is an above-average amount of college graduates here. Since when is having children stereotypically SJ? Last time I checked reproductive instincts were alive and kicking in all humans.

    So that makes me ask:
    does sensing or intuitive preferences affect the decision to attend and graduate from college?
    are intuitives (with or without college education) less likely to have children? are sensors (with or without college education) more likely to have children?

    My basic point is people need to sort out the pieces that make the whole instead of just assuming the whole part is the way it is because that's just the way it is. SES is a looming and I'd say dominating factor in why you are they way you are.
    I was raised as white trash as is possible to be. My mom and grandmom are both ENFPs raised white trash. My dad was an INFJ from a farm family, but I spent very little time with them as a kid.

    As for me and my sibs:
    Me-ENFP
    Brother-ESFP
    Sister-ESFP

    I am the only person in three generations of family to have a high school degree. Both sibs dropped out. Mom and sibs dropped out. Grandmom and sibs dropped out.

    I am the only person ever to go to college, let alone go to grad school.

    I'd say watching my mom left me with very valuable insight and a lot of Te way early with little Fi.

    The Te lessons learned were never depend on anyone else-or you are at their mercy. Become financially independent from others, never let anyone tell you what you can or cant do. Avoid debt, be accountable and responsible to yourself, be willing to face up to your own mistakes. I can do whatever I need to do to take care of myself. Adversity is my best friend as it makes me drive myself further, enhance my skills, develop my mind, and become stronger when Ne would have let me wonder off and play. Having a kid at 18 actually strengthened this drive. Instead of playing, I really did have to be accountable for the care of another person. Te, Te, Te, Te....

    The unfortunate Fi lesson learned was never to become emotionally dependent on anyone either. Dont trust people, dont rely on them, you cant they are undependable.

    Why didnt my sister and brother do this as well-they have Te too?

    Ne and a lack of Se-it allows me to see things that are not in front of my face. It allows me to ignore the things that are in front of me-people's opinions, things they value, limitations, societal constraints, lack of money, being a single mom. It allows me to see the meta structure in my behavior patterns and not repeat them-perhaps this is TeSi at work?

  6. #26
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by proteanmix View Post
    They found that African-Americans had a disproportionate amount of ISTJs and Hispanics a disproportionate amount of ESFPs compared to the rest of the American population. I wonder what accounts for those differences. Maybe SES holds a clue.
    I'm from a Hispanic family, I would say that where they are from, the average Introverts and Thinkers would be considered an X on both those axes by English standards.

    It's a cultural issue, with such big families and such an emphasis on being sociable, as well as being such a sentimental culture, it's hard not to develop your E and F - which I am grateful for.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #27
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Puppy View Post

    Why didnt my sister and brother do this as well-they have Te too?

    Ne and a lack of Se-it allows me to see things that are not in front of my face. It allows me to ignore the things that are in front of me-people's opinions, things they value, limitations, societal constraints, lack of money, being a single mom. It allows me to see the meta structure in my behavior patterns and not repeat them-perhaps this is TeSi at work?
    OK, I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, but you believe it was your Ne that allowed you to be successful?

    If I can find five ESFPs (or any type for that matter) that escaped a similarly disadvantaged background to achieve what would you say? What allowed them to do it? Do you attribute your personal success to being intuitive or any other functional preferences?

    Like I said, I'm not trying to be difficult. It's my pet peeve, but I feel like this needs to be pounded into people's heads. What I understand you to be saying is your ambition, determination, and drive to make a different future for yourself than what you had growing up stems from your being intuitive. Am I understanding you correctly?

    I break most of my SES and cultural indicators too and I could throw out a mightier list than yours. I don't attribute it my sensing and intuiting behaviors more than my own industriousness, drive, and sense of personal development.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  8. #28
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Yeah, my dad is probably an SP and grew up in rural poverty. He was eventually able to earn the equivalent of a Masters in his field and did pretty well for himself financially until his health began to fail.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #29
    full of love Kingfisher's Avatar
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    i did not know about mbti for most of my life, so i feel like i am not qualified to analyze a lot of my experiences with social class in an mbti sense.
    but my feeling (based on my experience) is that people are very diverse, and they remain diverse no matter what social class you are in.

    i spend time now working with kids of a very low social-economic class, and i really don't see any kinds of trends in them as far as mbti.

  10. #30
    Senior Member edcoaching's Avatar
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    I've worked with literally hundreds of urban students from a rich mix of backgrounds, 80% below the official poverty line. They turn out to be a mix of types very very similar to what I get in suburban schools...when we reinforce the concepts over time, they experience the preferences and understand that all types are great ways to be. Hmmm, sounds like what it takes for most adults to figure out best fit type...
    edcoaching

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