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  1. #11
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I think your type is relatively intrinsic/innate.

    I have two full sisters who come from the same background as I do, and one is an SJ and the other is an xp, regardless, both have major sensing preferences.
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  2. #12
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    You don't need to be wealthy to be an N, or to facilitate or foster your N.

    There are soooooooo many hours and minutes each day, even while you're working, when you can choose to engage your world however you want to.
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    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  3. #13
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I don't think there's such a big change. I used to live a getto-ish neighborhood when I was a small kid, now I live in a relatively good suburban area. I also still have friends from the ghetto-ish neighborhood, along with really affluent friends; I have never noticed an higher leaning towards intuitiv-ness among the affluent people, I only have noticed that they're generally more willing to acquire an higher education, perhaps better able to force themselves to study and more academically savvy, thus better at understanding complex language and mathematics.

    My father is marshal in the military (which is really SJ stuff), my girlfriend's father is a high-level engineer (thus really NT stuff), yet she's absolutely much more S than me (this doesn't mean I'm an irresponsible scatterbrain, I don't think you got the dichotomy right proteanmix).

    Also there's a majority of poor, college graduates here
    You can't use that easily the definition of "poor". A single 25-yo living on 30k a year is likely not poor, a married 40-yo living on 50k a year with 3 children might in some cases be poor. I don't know anyone that has been able to directly enter the job market with a 100k per year paycheck. Since you're meausing income, not wealth (thus crowding out potentially family-wise rich people), the results are prefectly in line with the average age demographic.
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  4. #14
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I don't think there's such a big change. I used to live a getto-ish neighborhood when I was a small kid, now I live in a relatively good suburban area. I also still have friends from the ghetto-ish neighborhood, along with really affluent friends; I have never noticed an higher leaning towards intuitiv-ness among the affluent people, I only have noticed that they're generally more willing to acquire an higher education, perhaps better able to force themselves to study and more academically savvy, thus better at understanding complex language and mathematics.

    My father is marshal in the military (which is really SJ stuff), my girlfriend's father is a high-level engineer (thus really NT stuff), yet she's absolutely much more S than me (this doesn't mean I'm an irresponsible scatterbrain, I don't think you got the dichotomy right proteanmix).
    I didn't use anecdotal "well my friend/parent/whatever" to make my points, I got some hard demographic data to support myself. From that information I extrapolated. I'm no statistician, but I did try to base my conclusions on more than what my family member who also happens to be XXXX type does.

    If you don't think I have the dichotomy right (which I may not, I have no problems admitting that) please feel free to supply some of your own based on more than anecdotal observations.

    People commonly and frequently on this forum admit to not having basic life skills and if they do have them it was like tunneling to the center of the earth to acquire them. If such a lack doesn't apply to you or anyone you know, then no worries.

    As far as the education part is concerned, I wasn't insinuating that more educated people are intuitives, actually I think education is why someone would mistype as intuitive because of the skills you learn while in college. Many intuitive qualities are falsely equated with things like critical thinking skills, abstract reasoning, metaphor usage, etc.

    Income I think relates to this (I speculate that many people here live at home w/ parents or guardians) because the more income you have, the less time you have to spend seeing to your basic life needs and more time engaging in navel-gazing, floating, roaming, daydreaming, being less aware of your environment or creating a fantasy world to inhabit. I think people like to call that being "imaginative" and "eccentric."

    You can't use that easily the definition of "poor". A single 25-yo living on 30k a year is likely not poor, a married 40-yo living on 50k a year with 3 children might in some cases be poor. I don't know anyone that has been able to directly enter the job market with a 100k per year paycheck. Since you're meausing income, not wealth (thus crowding out potentially family-wise rich people), the results are prefectly in line with the average age demographic.
    Actually the demographic data of that single 25 YO and married 40 YOU would tell us more about them than anything else. What is the cost index of the area they live? Do they have student loans? Are they renting, own, or live at home? Do they children? What other debts and expenses do they have? I relied on Quantcast to define what is affluent/less affluent. Feel free to investigate how they define affluence. I said poor, which was my own phrasing not theirs but I based it on the stats that said that most people at the forum are less affluent. If you re-read my post I said I think the affluence data may be skewed because people here may be living at home and their individual income pushes them into lesser affluence, but not their family income.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
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  5. #15
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You can't use that easily [as] the definition of "poor". A single 25-yo living on 30k a year is likely not poor, a married 40-yo living on 50k a year with 3 children might in some cases be poor. [...] Since you're meausing income, not wealth (thus crowding out potentially family-wise rich people), the results are prefectly in line with the average age demographic.

  6. #16
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    On one hand I see what you're driving at - for example, ENFPs who come from working class or poor backgrounds probably develop Te at an earlier age than ones from more affluent backgrounds, and may also seem a little less consistently fluffy and sweet - but on the other hand I think people are who they are despite socio-economic status.

    For example - what Protean was saying about us not having children so being more free to have our head in the clouds - what if Ns are just more likely to put off having children to an older age (or completely) because we're Ns and not because of socio-economic background. I think we might be more likely to choose to do things with our lives that aren't stereotypically SJ that also has very little to do with socio-economic status.

  7. #17
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    I As far as the education part is concerned, I wasn't insinuating that more educated people are intuitives, actually I think education is why someone would mistype as intuitive because of the skills you learn while in college. Many intuitive qualities are falsely equated with things like critical thinking skills, abstract reasoning, metaphor usage, etc.
    This is true. Like I said before, a priveliged education will make people appear to be more N, especially online - and therefore believe themselves to be.

    Income I think relates to this (I speculate that many people here live at home w/ parents or guardians) because the more income you have, the less time you have to spend seeing to your basic life needs and more time engaging in navel-gazing, floating, roaming, daydreaming, being less aware of your environment or creating a fantasy world to inhabit. I think people like to call that being "imaginative" and "eccentric."
    This is partly true though I wouldn't say that all the traits of being forced to concentrate on concrete survival above iNtuitive pursuits are positive.

    Just like navel-gazers and people who divorce themselves from reality are unhealthy, so it's negative that the majority of working people are forced into pragmatism - "the misery of the possible" as it's called in some countries ("la miseria de lo posible")

    Which is why it's important to unite theory and practice, for the former to be a guide to the latter, and to be able to use a deep understanding of our society, to answer the pressing nes of working people.

    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

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  8. #18
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    In concurrence with many posters in this thread, I agree that childhood environment as affected by socio-economic class has a DRASTIC affect on the way people perceive others(as well as themselves).

    Whether or not this affect will be reflected in type test results I cannot say.

    To be perfectly honest I think the the socio-economic divide is the last great taboos/elephant in the room in this country.

  9. #19
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    On one hand I see what you're driving at - for example, ENFPs who come from working class or poor backgrounds probably develop Te at an earlier age than ones from more affluent backgrounds, and may also seem a little less consistently fluffy and sweet - but on the other hand I think people are who they are despite socio-economic status.

    For example - what Protean was saying about us not having children so being more free to have our head in the clouds - what if Ns are just more likely to put off having children to an older age (or completely) because we're Ns and not because of socio-economic background. I think we might be more likely to choose to do things with our lives that aren't stereotypically SJ that also has very little to do with socio-economic status.
    College graduates are more likely to put off having children. There is an above-average amount of college graduates here. Since when is having children stereotypically SJ? Last time I checked reproductive instincts were alive and kicking in all humans.

    So that makes me ask:
    does sensing or intuitive preferences affect the decision to attend and graduate from college?
    are intuitives (with or without college education) less likely to have children? are sensors (with or without college education) more likely to have children?

    My basic point is people need to sort out the pieces that make the whole instead of just assuming the whole part is the way it is because that's just the way it is. SES is a looming and I'd say dominating factor in why you are they way you are.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #20
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Ok can't swear to it, but I think MBTI is representative of each of the demographic bands.

    An INFP in a poor socio ecconomic group is stil INFP but they struggle to meet thier bills.

    Rationalist still rationlise etc. Personality isn't means tested.

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