Holy crap!--the orientation of the tertiary?!

[nightning]

Actually the research going all the way back to Mary McCaulley (the psychologist who teamed with Myers in developing the actual MBTI) says that while it takes longer for people with differences in type preferences to figure out how to work together, type-diverse teams make better decisions than type-alike groups. Harder to have group-think take over reasoning...

And any two types can get along famously. Just all people can't make constructive use of differences

Hmmmm I can see what you mean about a balanced team functioning more effectively. Not exactly sure I buy into the idea with the opposing tertiary orientation just yet. It takes less time and effort for me to start working with an ENTP than with an INTJ. Despite sharing the dominant Ni, INTJ work style can get on my nerve while ENTP doesn't do so nearly as often.

Of course, if you throw in the disclaimer that function development beyond auxiliary depends on the individual's experiences, then this all flies out the window.

Entrop: south south east is too complicated... let's just do everything at the magnetic north pole so any direction is the right one.

 

[Frank]

I love reading and thinking about theories but it's the ideas of what the possibilities are (like reforming math education throughout the world based on my research on S-N differences...) rather than the nuances of the theory.

Actually the very loose parameters are, if the environment supports the child (a rather big if, actually) then the dominant develops by the age of 8-12, meaning they have conscious control over it. You can use a function without mastering it but for example by 12 the Ni's who've been supported know how to use their hunches and insights, even though they probably started having them in the crib. The auxiliary develops during adolescence and most people can even pinpoint an "awakening." It's normal for E's to withdraw a bit in those years and actually develop the auxiliary in an obvious way via an activity that any type expert would recognize. And for I's to find some external arena (they're usually forced to through school anyway.) Then what happens depends on life--and again you can do activities that use functions without really having control over them.

As for whether most people have a dominant and auxiliary well-developed by young adulthood? Ask yourself how we define immaturity:

• "He/she just rushes to decisions, cutting off without enough information or the input of anyone else. If they'd just listen..."--that's lack fo development of a Perceiving function. OR,
• "He/she can't make up her mind about anything--keeps switching majors/can't settle on a career/flits from passion to passion"--that's lack of a judging function.

Or, go into any business and count the number of unbalanced decisions. There are plenty of people out there who have barely begun the journey of individuation...

Could you give some examples of these recognizable behaviors based on function?

 

[edcoaching]

Could you give some examples of these recognizable behaviors based on function?

For example, a 13-year-old ENTP who has never sat still suddenly develops an interest in, oh, theories of origins of the universe, spends lots of time in her room comparing theories on the web or modeling iterations of the Big Bang. Or, gets suddenly interested in designing an intricate ___logic puzzle? Something fun that uses Ti

An adolescent ISFJ decides to become a leader in the AFS club at school, enjoying time with students with the same interests and lending her skills to better organized events.

An INTJ joins a climbing club, fascinated by scrutinizing routes and determining equipment efficiencies

An ESFP develops an interest in journaling about her relationships instead of just talking with friends about them.

The E's find something inward that is interesting enough for them to crave time with their second function. And the I's find something in the outer world with the same effect...

 

[edcoaching]

Not exactly sure I buy into the idea with the opposing tertiary orientation just yet.

Well maybe we'd be a good case study. You might have Ti while if it's supposed to be that way for me, well...I flunk. I'm in the middle of writing up a research journal article and as usual I'm choosing among wine, chocolate and caffeine to stay with it...

 

[Frank]

For example, a 13-year-old ENTP who has never sat still suddenly develops an interest in, oh, theories of origins of the universe, spends lots of time in her room comparing theories on the web or modeling iterations of the Big Bang. Or, gets suddenly interested in designing an intricate ___logic puzzle? Something fun that uses Ti

An adolescent ISFJ decides to become a leader in the AFS club at school, enjoying time with students with the same interests and lending her skills to better organized events.

An INTJ joins a climbing club, fascinated by scrutinizing routes and determining equipment efficiencies

An ESFP develops an interest in journaling about her relationships instead of just talking with friends about them.



The E's find something inward that is interesting enough for them to crave time with their second function. And the I's find something in the outer world with the same effect...

What would ni as a second look like at that stage?

 

[edcoaching]

What would ni as a second look like at that stage?

A sudden interest in writing or journaling, or in designing the story line for a cool RPG. It could also be something like finally putting time in on playing an instrument, perhaps fiddling with composing.

 

[rsgracey]

The MBTI Manual as it stands, 3rd edition, revised 2003, printed 2009, and Isabel Myers Briggs Gifts Differing, revised 1995, take what was apparently Jung's view on the tertiary function, that it, just like the auxiliary and the inferior, is opposite in orientation to the dominant function!

So now I'm puzzled. See, I believe the more current understanding (which comes from where?--I don't know), that the functions alternate orientation as one moves down the order. And I assume this is a relatively new idea. I for one forget where I read it and why I accepted it other than that it seems true. But what in sweet jesus blessed name does this mean for the type descriptions? They're all based on Izzie's ideas!

Who developed the idea of alternating orientations? How long has it been around? Are MBTI practitioners really walking around using the old type dynamics model?

That is correct. In order to see the truth of this original viewpoint, you have to understand the nature and character of the introverted and extraverted orientations of each function. If you can recognize them, then there's no chance you'll accept the "alternating current" version of the Type model. In my decades of MBTI work and study, I have YET to meet and IxxP who had introverted Sensing, nor any ExxJ who had extraverted Sensing.

EJs, for instance, are all really good at remembering facts, doing arithmetic in their heads, and enjoying "puzzles" like crosswords and "candy-crush-like" games. IPs, on the other hand, are NOT really good at remembering facts or doing arithmetic or all sorts of other introverted Sensing tasks, like following directions step by step. IPs, on the other hand, tend to really like working with their hands and using tools (although introverted Thinkers moreso than introverted Feelers) and they're very attuned to the physical environment. They "see" and notice what's around them, moreso than EJs, who have trouble "seeing" what's in front of them.

Whoever came up with this "alternating current" idea never grasped the nature of different function orientations. If you'd like to discuss your tertiary function's attitude, I'd be glad to explore it with you.

 

[Vendrah]

I already figured that out here:
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...8922-jung-typology-explained.html#post3299987

In resume, the secondary and tertiary does NOT have a specific E/I orientation and it is according to the primary function demands at the moment (for example, the pursued possibility on the Ne type), environment and a personal thing, while the inferior orientation is the opposite of the dominant. That holds true to Jung and either makes very sense on cognitive function tests results.