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MBTI and Cognitive Functions

paradox fox

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All right. So I understand MBTI types and how they are determined, and I mostly understand the Eight Cognitive Functions and can give examples of each function. I see what the pattern is for putting them in order (Fi Ne Si Te, Se Ti Fe Ni, etc.) What I don't understand is how the two are correlated.

How did they determine and assign those combinations for all the different MBTI types? Was it through induction (reading the type description and assigning the combination) or deduction (combination first, correlated to type second)? (Hope I got induction and deduction straight, but that is entirely beside the point!)

Also, is there a way to just look at a code and know if it's a Judging or Perceiving type, without having to straight up memorize them all?

That's all.
 

simulatedworld

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Take the four-letter type and pick out the middle two letters, for example INFP...we get N and F.

This tells you that N and F will be the top two functions.

Next, look at P/J--this tells you which of those two functions is extroverted (not which one is dominant.) If you're a P type, the N/S will be extroverted; if you're a J type, the T/F will be instead.

So for INFP, we have N and F, and the P tells us that the N is extroverted, so we get Ne and Fi.

Lastly, the I tells us that the introverted one is dominant, so we have dominant Fi and secondary Ne.

So these four functions are used in the top two by P types: Ne, Se, Fi, Ti
And these four are used in the top two by J types: Ni, Si, Fe, Te

That's about it.
 

disregard

mrs
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INFP
Yeah, I sort of skimmed the OP, so let me answer it:

If you are a J, that means your dominant judging process is extraverted, so it would be Te or Fe.

If you are a P, it is introverted, so Ti, Fi.
 

Andy

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All right. So I understand MBTI types and how they are determined, and I mostly understand the Eight Cognitive Functions and can give examples of each function. I see what the pattern is for putting them in order (Fi Ne Si Te, Se Ti Fe Ni, etc.) What I don't understand is how the two are correlated.

How did they determine and assign those combinations for all the different MBTI types? Was it through induction (reading the type description and assigning the combination) or deduction (combination first, correlated to type second)? (Hope I got induction and deduction straight, but that is entirely beside the point!)

Also, is there a way to just look at a code and know if it's a Judging or Perceiving type, without having to straight up memorize them all?

That's all.

MBTI has its roots in the works ot Carl Jung. I gather that when he started all this off, he didn't have a four letter code, just the idea of functions themselves. It was Myers and Briggs that developed the code we use in MBTI. Thus, I think it is safe to safe that the type descriptions come from the functions, not the other way round.

Function order is largely based upon theory with some experimental back up. I think it was Myers./Briggs observation that introverts primarily display their auxilary to the world that resulted in the differnce in how MBTI and socionics define P/J.
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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All right. So I understand MBTI types and how they are determined, and I mostly understand the Eight Cognitive Functions and can give examples of each function. I see what the pattern is for putting them in order (Fi Ne Si Te, Se Ti Fe Ni, etc.) What I don't understand is how the two are correlated.

How did they determine and assign those combinations for all the different MBTI types? Was it through induction (reading the type description and assigning the combination) or deduction (combination first, correlated to type second)? (Hope I got induction and deduction straight, but that is entirely beside the point!)

They based them on the functions passed down from Carl Jung. They added the J/P dichotomy to explain that introverts show their auxiliary function to the world. So it was functions first, then Myers-Briggs created their Type Dynamics Theory (using the 4 letters). Various others have tried to theorize how all eight functions play out, including Beebe and Thompson, but it's generally accepted to be futile in practice, once you get past the 'shadow' function, or number 4.

At least that's my take, but I'm a new student in typology.
 

paradox fox

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Thanks, all!

I guess it makes sense that Se and Ne indicate a Perceiving preference. They apply information gathering to the external environment. Te and Fe would be Judging because those functions apply decision-making to the external environment. That thought popped into my head last night.
 

highlander

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This is a helpful and clarifying thread.

So with regards to the 4 functions in the type and the additional 4 shadow functions, how do preferences relate to strengths, for example as measured by the cognitive functions assessment in this link?

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes

It would seem that the preferred function should have a higher score than the non preferred. It would also seem that the dominant and the auxiliary should be #1 and #2 respectively.

Here's an example. I took the assessment a couple of weeks ago and was surprised at the ordering - specifically as it related to the shadow functions, and that two shadow functions had higher numbers than the auxiliary (this didn't seem to make logical sense).

Ni 46.7 Dominant, Excellent Use
Ti 37.5 Shadow, Excellent Use
Ne 34.3 Shadow, Average Use
Te 29.3 Auxiliary, Average Use
Fi 28.0 Tertiary, Average Use
Fe 24.5 Shadow, Average Use
Se 23.2 Inferior, Limited Use
Si 18.0 Shadow, Limited Use

Thoughts?
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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This is a helpful and clarifying thread.

So with regards to the 4 functions in the type and the additional 4 shadow functions, how do preferences relate to strengths, for example as measured by the cognitive functions assessment in this link?

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes

It would seem that the preferred function should have a higher score than the non preferred. It would also seem that the dominant and the auxiliary should be #1 and #2 respectively.

Here's an example. I took the assessment a couple of weeks ago and was surprised at the ordering - specifically as it related to the shadow functions, and that two shadow functions had higher numbers than the auxiliary (this didn't seem to make logical sense).

Ni 46.7 Dominant, Excellent Use
Ti 37.5 Shadow, Excellent Use
Ne 34.3 Shadow, Average Use
Te 29.3 Auxiliary, Average Use
Fi 28.0 Tertiary, Average Use
Fe 24.5 Shadow, Average Use
Se 23.2 Inferior, Limited Use
Si 18.0 Shadow, Limited Use

Thoughts?

My take? It means the tests are not very rigorous and complete (which this one isn't), and/or that we don't understand completely what functions a person uses, and why (which is true too). This test could be poor and you are really Ni/Te/Fi. Or you could be an INTJ that prefers to use Ni/Ti/Ne/Te/Fi, which I would write like this:

Ni/Te/Fi
Ne/Ti/Fe

I just commented about all this stuff here. I don't know much, but I am fascinated by functions and how very little we know about how we use them. :smile: Question for you: When you test INTJ, do you test strongly/moderately/weakly on the N/S and T/F divides? What are your percentages? I would guess you test strongly N and T based on your function results, but I'm intrigued to know if I'm right.........
 

SillySapienne

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ENFP
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4w5
extraverted Sensing (Se) ***************************** (29.2)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ********** (10.7)
unused
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************************** (50.9)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ********** (10.8)
unused
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************* (21.2)
limited use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********************************* (33.4)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************************* (49.9)
excellent use

As, I suspected, I is an ENFP!

:cheers:
 

highlander

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My take? It means the tests are not very rigorous and complete (which this one isn't), and/or that we don't understand completely what functions a person uses, and why (which is true too). This test could be poor and you are really Ni/Te/Fi. Or you could be an INTJ that prefers to use Ni/Ti/Ne/Te/Fi, which I would write like this:

Ni/Te/Fi
Ne/Ti/Fe

I just commented about all this stuff here. I don't know much, but I am fascinated by functions and how very little we know about how we use them. :smile: Question for you: When you test INTJ, do you test strongly/moderately/weakly on the N/S and T/F divides? What are your percentages? I would guess you test strongly N and T based on your function results, but I'm intrigued to know if I'm right.........

Fascinating post you had there. I especially liked this part:

It would be in our best interests, therefore, to combine our efforts and develop some methodology for assessing a person's cognitive functions. From there, qualitative studies could be performed, and from there more quantitative studies would follow. Then, finally, some more rigorous and true archetypes could be (re)defined, and personality type more positively used as a tool for interaction among individuals and societies

Solitary Walker and Lenore Thompson's type profiles seem to be head and shoulders above the other ones that I've seen in the past and it is only recently, since joining this forum, that I've discovered them. The shadow functions are still a bit of a mystery to me though.

With regards to whether I'm a slight/moderate/strong preferences, it has changed over the years. When I first took one of these assessments about 14 years ago, it came out as strong I and T with moderate N and J preferences. The qualitative conclusion in my notes from that time was INTJ with some "SP influence". Then later, N got to be much stronger and J got stronger as well. The assessments always come out the same (INTJ) but the strength of preferences is moderating. The last one I took is the step 2 here.

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...ality-matrices/27491-step-ii.html#post1035132

All came out moderate with two of the 20 facets "out of preference".

(That was a fun thread BTW to see Solitary Waker, the ultimate intellectual theorist/purist, and EdCoaching, the ultimate pragmatic applier of the theory, go back and forth - felt like Clash of the Titans)
 

highlander

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As, I suspected, I is an ENFP!

:cheers:

Don't mean to *over analyze* you SS, but doing some quick ordering here for comparative purposes:

(Ne) Dominant (50.9) excellent use
(Fi) Auxiliary (49.9) excellent use
(Ni) Shadow (34.5) good use
(Fe) Shadow (33.4) good use
(Se) Shadow (29.2) average use
(Ti) Shadow (21.2) limited use
(Te) Tertiary (10.8) unused
(Si) Inferior (10.7) unused

Here 3 of 4 shadow functions are "good use" or "average use" and all shadow functions are higher than tertiary or inferior. In this case though Dominant and Auxiliary are ranked #1 and #2.
 

SillySapienne

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Don't mean to *over analyze* you SS, but doing some quick ordering here for comparative purposes:

(Ne) Dominant (50.9) excellent use
(Fi) Auxiliary (49.9) excellent use
(Ni) Shadow (34.5) good use
(Fe) Shadow (33.4) good use
(Se) Shadow (29.2) average use
(Ti) Shadow (21.2) limited use
(Te) Tertiary (10.8) unused
(Si) Inferior (10.7) unused

Here 3 of 4 shadow functions are "good use" or "average use" and all shadow functions are higher than tertiary or inferior. In this case though Dominant and Auxiliary are ranked #1 and #2.
Sorry, :boohoo: I don't speak typologese, could you explain this to me, in dummy terms, please!

:)
 

SillySapienne

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All I see when I read my scores was that I am both very much so an Intuitive and a Feeler.

:)

Which, I definitely know I am. ;)
 
G

garbage

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Every available excuse to take an online test

extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *************************************** (39.3)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ************************************* (37.6)
excellent use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************* (37.3)
excellent use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************* (33.3)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ****************************** (30.3)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ***************************** (29.2)
average use
extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************* (25.3)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ******* (7.9)
unused

Summary Analysis of Profile
By focusing on the strongest configuration of cognitive processes, your pattern of responses most closely matches individuals of this type: ENFP
 

Lady_X

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i took the one elaur posted earlier :)

Picture2-3.jpg
 

highlander

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All I see when I read my scores was that I am both very much so an Intuitive and a Feeler.

:)

Which, I definitely know I am. ;)

Well you have definitely caught the most important point.

First, there are introverted and extraverted sides for each of the 4 letters N, T, S, and F so that actually gives us 8 functions to select from.

Assumption - This assessment is correct

we prefer one of each pair over the other. I'm skipping this step, but you also get an ordering of those 4 and 8 functions from the assessment results. For you, preferences are bolded:

Ni vs Ne Dominant
Fi vs Fe Auiliary
Ti vs Te Tertiary
Si vs Se Inferior

So, your function order of your type is Ne, Fi, Te, Si. Ne is your strongest - maybe thought of as the general, which helps you to perceive, and you perceive a lot as a dominant perceiver. Fi is the general's aide, which helps you to decide. Te is tertiary, which is not so developed but which gets more developed as life goes on. Inferior grows a little and you begin to enjoy it more later in life but it remains the runt of the litter. It can't do what the rest of the dogs do. Sometimes, it pees on the rug.

The question that comes up is what happens with all those shadow functions? How do they relate to all of this? That's the part I don't understand. Based on your and my results, it would appear that the shadow functions get a fair bit of use and we have some comfort using most of them. That's a bit perplexing because MBTI is really about the 4 and not much is written about the shadow functions. They all look important since you have good to average use of most of them (certainly more than tertiary or auxiliary).[/I] For me, I have higher use of two shadow functions than my auxiliary (general's aide) which really makes no sense to me.

So what I'm trying to figure out is where the shadow functions fit and what they mean and why they are not discussed as much. Thompson has some stuff in her book but I'm not sure if or how it works the way she describes.
 

paradox fox

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INFP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Shadow functions
Later personality researchers (notably Linda V. Berens)[22] added four additional functions to the descending hierarchy, the so-called "shadow" functions to which the individual is not naturally inclined but which can emerge when the person is under stress. For INFP, these shadow functions are (in order):

Extraverted Feeling (Fe): Fe seeks social connections and creates harmonious interactions through polite, considerate, and appropriate behavior. Fe responds to the explicit (and implicit) wants of others, and may even create an internal conflict between the subject’s own needs and the desire to meet the needs of others.[23]
Introverted Intuition (Ni): Attracted to symbolic actions or devices, Ni synthesizes seeming paradoxes to create the previously unimagined. These realizations come with a certainty that demands action to fulfill a new vision of the future, solutions that may include complex systems or universal truths.[24]
Extraverted Sensing (Se): Extraverted sensing focuses on the experiences and sensations of the immediate, physical world. With an acute awareness of the present surroundings, it brings relevant facts and details to the forefront and may lead to spontaneous action.[25]
Introverted Thinking (Ti): Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[26]"

Myers-Briggs Type Indicator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Looking at the diametrically opposite four-letter type, INFP:

Extraverted function is a perceiving function (S-N) because of the P preference
Introverted function is dominant because of the I preference
Dominant function is therefore introverted feeling (Fi)
Auxiliary function is extraverted intuition (Ne)
Tertiary function is the opposite of the Auxiliary: sensing
Inferior function is the opposite of the Dominant: extraverted thinking (Te)
The dynamics of the INFP rest on the fundamental correspondence of introverted feeling and extraverted intuition. The dominant tendency of the INFP is toward building a rich internal framework of values and toward championing human rights. They often devote themselves behind the scenes to causes such as civil rights or saving the environment. Since they tend to avoid the limelight, postpone decisions, and maintain a reserved posture, they are rarely found in executive-director type positions of the organizations that serve those causes. Normally, the INFP dislikes being "in charge" of things. When not under stress, the INFP radiates a pleasant and sympathetic demeanor; but under extreme stress, they can suddenly become rigid and directive, exerting their extraverted thinking erratically."

If the shadow functions only surfaced under stress, wouldn't they all be as erratic and annoying as my Te is? I rather like using my shadow functions. Se is pretty fun, Fe helps me to not stomp all over people, Ti is important to my writing and conflict mediating, and I get Ni thoughts quite a bit (mini-premonitions, like oh crap, something really bad is about to happen, I gotta stop this trainwreck before it happens), but I don't have as much control over it as the others. The description of my Te is pretty spot on.

I think the difference is I use the shadow functions individually and not necessarily in conjuntion with the others, unlike my "default" INFP functions.
 

Eric B

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sp/sx
But the thing is, all of those descriptions you mentioned might not be true "function use". Like Se being "fun", and the descriptions based on Berens/Nardi (which this test is based on). I'm finding more and more than their descriptions are good to give a basic idea of the functions, but if you take them as definitive behavior, then we end up with a giant Forer effect where everyone can claim to "use" all the functions the same amount.
So a better way to look at it, as was brought out recently, is that of "perspective". The INFP's preferred perspective is one of internal valuation. This could still leda to helping you "to not stomp all over people", without necessarily "using Fe".

Also, the description where the inferior is the one that comes out under "extreme" stress (and thus seems worse than the shadows) is based on the old four function theory (which Wikipedia originally reflected; Berens' cpncepts were added in more recently), particularly from sites such as Team technology.
In Beebe's essays explaining how he developed his model, you see where he began identifying certain behaviors as an overdominating Ne neglecting inferior Si, and later realized that these were actually the shadows (such as "destructive" 8th place Se), being eclipsed by the primary functions. So I wonder if that "Te" you mention might actually be a "destructive" Ti. That will certaiinly become rigid and perhaps even directive. Since it shadows Te, they may both be involved, or the line between them might blur.

Also, since the shadows are unconscious, and the inferior is likely the least preferred of the conscious functions, then that would explain why you would think Te is "worse" than the shadows. Yo're not really concsious of them, though you may engage in behaviors associated with them, and this be reflected by the test (which again, might not always be actual "use" of the functions).
 

edcoaching

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One of the coolest things to do with all this is get people in the room all using the same function--and see what happens. For example when we do type and spirituality workshops, we make everyone go and do an Si exercise: Go outside, find something that attracts your attention as something in creation that seems spiritual to you, and study it for 5 minutes, writing about it. No analogies. No metaphors. Stay with what is.

We let the N's report first (doesn't matter if they're Ne or Ni). They think the exercise was a waste of time. What can you do with a flower or a rock or even a lake if you can only write facts. Boring. Those who have S as a tertiary function don't do a whole lot better. When it's the auxiliary function their experiences get richer. Then the S's report, and the rest of the room falls out of their chairs at the richness of their writings (did you know that dandilions turn toward the sun??? I especially like it when professional clergy fall out of their chairs :)
 
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